First off, what are you up to now, including your work with L.I.MITLESS Foundation?
I’m medically retired since the 2024 season. I had post-concussion symptoms and neck pain from playing. It wasn’t in the best interest for me to keep playing. I had a growing family and wanted to transition to a new life.
I started L.I.MITLESS in 2023. It started with simple events and has grown now with free clinics for kids now including the Whetstone Clinic. I started the clinic with my childhood best friend Denzel Williams. We wanted to give back to the kids with the resources and relationships we didn’t have access too as kids. I was fortunate to meet some incredible people in college and to have some great experience and I wanted to share those with the kids.
Outside of that I’ve bene rehabbing from the concussion stuff and navigating what’s next. I love dirt – I love ecology – so I’m exploring anything involving growing things too.
I discussed the difficulty in adjusting to post-military and post-football life with Alejandro Villanueva. How have you been able to do so – and how does your military transition compare to football?
Al was different – he had experience as an Army Ranger and saw combat and was an All-Pro player – I give him his flowers. Coming through West Point Academy, I developed relationships that were transparent there. You saw the bare-bones of who people are. I thought that that would be what is was like in the NFL. Not to be too harsh on those guys, but I learned it was more of a business. It was a different landscape.
Now, as a civilian, it was different. The like-minded people I used to be around weren’t there as much – people were living their own lives. I had to create my own structure now too – before everything was structured for me down to the minute. That was the biggest challenge for me.
The physical challenges are real, but no one prepares you for the mental challenges after the game, defining who you are. The pro and West Point felt like a fever dream at times – life was so different now. The pace and goals were so different.
Now, I’m more faith-based. I lean on my faith in God and Christ and want to do right by my family and community. I was trained to serve and want to continue doing so.
You see players like yourself and Eli Heidenrich come from the military to the NFL – how does the military help and/or hinder that transition to pro ball?
That’s a great question. The transition from West Point to the pros was challenging – I thought everyone saw it the same – as a team game. But the perspective was different – people were playing for salaries. They wanted to feed their families and were less committed unless the team was paying them what they wanted.
I learned it was a business. I also came in during Covid and that made it a tougher adjustment. I had to train by myself, at home, and when we got to practice my opportunities were limited. I felt like I needed a new perspective – that things were stacked up against me. But I realized it also gave me the time to learn how to be a pro and to put on my business hat and be an executive in my own way.
Were there early mentors over you NFL career that helped you most? How so?
I had a great group of friends in our rookie class – and Rod McLeod in Philly was an old-head who helped. Will Parks too – they helped us learn what it was like to be a pro and to establish good game tape – and how to watch tape too.
In New York CJ Mosley and Greg Sinnott helped – Greg became a very good friend.
Then in Pittsburgh – Minkah Fitzpatrick, Levi Wallace, Demonte Kazee, Miles Killebrew, Keanu Neal – all those guys were solid people who cared about football, but about people too. Pastor Kent Chevalier too. The guys challenged you in the weight room and in sprints, but they challenged you in the locker room too – to grow as men and leaders. I am grateful to all of them I met along the way.
What made you decide to sign with the Steelers?
Pittsburgh worked. The Jets didn’t. That’s why Pittsburgh did!
In New York I started the second half of the season but then was carted off of the field after a bad concussion. I didn’t realize the additional effects it had on me at first. I struggled in Spring and Summer, and by the time I recovered business set in – it was too late.
I was excited to play in Pittsburgh. I had a day to myself to decide to sign with them. I talked to my agent and we decided on Pittsburgh. They called first and provided the best opportunity. I played nickel and safety – my versatility was a strength of mine – I could play anywhere and that worked well for me. I was also familiar with their defense – at Army we played in a similar defense. It was cool to put that experience to the test.
I wanted to get into that. You had a number of position changes over your career – how did you navigate those and what did Pittsburgh ask you to do?
The learning curve was ridiculous. I played in the Shrine game and they had me play multiple positions – safety, corner, nickel… It was a crash course in them all. At Army we did our one-eleventh work – I couldn’t describe what anyone else did or why we did what we did on defense. I just knew what we were running. In the Shrine game they had me drinking from a firehose.
When I got to Philadelphia I began on the practice squad and was able to learn a lot about other defenses being on the scout team. By the time I got to the Jets it all started to click. It all came together. I was learning the playbook – I had to get good at it!
Who on the Steelers helped you most to adjust to the city/team?
It was a good, deep defensive backs room. We were all quick to help each other. We had injuries both years I was there – guys cycled through. It was important to know the system. Once I learned that, it was just football. I played for 20 years – it felt great to be on the field – to be that guy in the arena.
The game is very relationship-driven for me. Playing with people I cared about – that elevated the experience for me. If I didn’t care about the other guys – it was just me doing my thing. I could do that playing baseball. But when we’re all offering sacrifice to one another – that means something to me. Especially with my military background.
They say football is the closest thing to war. It’s like combat in a low-stakes environment. That’s what football feels like for me.
You got a lot of playing time with the Steelers over those two years – playing in 17 games – including a sack and some TFLs in 2023. What on-field memories stand out most as a Steeler?
I think about the end of my first year in Pittsburgh when I ran down a punt. The returner made a cut and Christian Kuntz gathered him up then I got a clean hit on him. I heard the crowd go “Ooooh!” I stood up and felt like “The Man”. I almost blacked out from that feeling.
The game versus the Browns too – at home in 2023. It was a tight game and it came down to the last couple of plays. I previously missed a sack on Deshaun Watson – he ducked under my sack. The called him Houdini for a reason! But I had a chance for redemption on the final drive and came in from the middle of the field and got a clean sack on him. Then Joey Porter got a pass breakup to put a stamp on it!
What funny/poignant off-field memories stand out from your time in Pittsburgh?
We had a small group led by Kent Chevalier – a discipleship group. We got to dive in and share highlights and challenges in a spiritual context. That changed my view of faith and of the sport – on how I navigated life. I made some really good friends there that I could share personal experiences with -they helped me work through a lot of that.
Training camp there was my first sleepaway training camp – it was intense! But it was the Hard Knocks dream the 10-year old me hoped to live out.
On off days we played basketball in the gym – that was a lot of fun.
Any of those guys any good?
We played 21 and 10. Tre Norwood had a good shot. Terrell Edmunds had an ugly shot – but somehow it went in often!