First, what have you been doing since your time in the NFL?
Basically, after I retired from the NFL, I opened an automobile agency in Milwaukee for 17 years then coached high school and track for 12 years. I ended up coaching two state football championships and one track championship.
Did you mold your coaching style after anyone you played for?
Nobody really – I didn’t follow anybody’s coaching style, so to speak. I did it the way I wanted to. Remember, I was drafted by Green Bay and played for Lombardi who was a great offensive mind. Then I went to Dallas and played for Tom Landry who was the founder of the 4-3 defense. In Pittsburgh, Buddy Parker was at the end of his coaching career – he was a heavy drinker. But Layne, John Henry Johnson, Buddy Dial, Mike Henry… it was a good group of sharp guys so I was able to learn a little form them too.
I was in Minnesota my last three years an played for Van Brocklin – he was known for his great quarterback ability.
So if I learned anything from all of those guys, it was that you have to evaluate the players you have and don’t make them adjust to your system. You have to put in a system that best fits your people. I won 87% of my games as a high school coach – that’s pretty good for a high school coach!
How did the coaching work get started?
After I retired I reached out to my old high school team – Berlin – to see if they wanted me to help coach their team. But they didn’t want me to coach there – they felt I’d be a distraction. That I’d be a detriment to the team because the coaches would think I’d want to replace them and do things all my own way and demand changes. So I said “Forget it!”
I went home and five minutes later my phone rang – it was the principal from Ripon High School – a team I used to play against in high school. He said he heard that Berlin had objections to me coaching there. But that they wanted me there at Ripon. As far as he was concerned, I was hired. My cousin was the offensive line coach at Berlin – I think he was the one who told the principal about what happened.
When I got there I didn’t want a title – just wanted to help and make recommendations. The secondary was so disorganized – it took two-to-three weeks to get the players used to understanding how to read offenses and keys, but we won a couple of close games before we got much better and stomped some good teams.
As a former safety, how did you go about reading keys and understanding offenses?
I played in the 4-3. I learned to read certain people in certain formations to understand what offenses may do. Watching certain people in certain situations. If you look at your reads correctly, you know what the play is before the ball is snapped. The only downfall of the 4-3 was that if you had poor linebackers, because they had to handle the screens, draws and play passes. You’re in a world of hurt if they aren’t good. Pittsburgh had Henry, Pottios, Livingston – guys at the end of their careers. It wasn’t a spicy bunch of players. Buddy Dial – he was damn good. And Art Rooney was the best owner I ever met. He’d ask for permission to come into the locker room, and he owned it!
You also scouted for the Steelers a bit?
I worked for Tim Rooney. On Sundays I’d scout other NFL teams with an eye on their 30-35th best players. If there was a trade that required a second player to be sent to Pittsburgh, they wanted a good idea of who that could be.
How did you end up in Pittsburgh as a player?
Back then Dallas had just formed and there was an AFL Dallas team as well. They were only pulling in about 20,000 a game. I was supposed to go to the Pro Bowl but they traded me to Pittsburgh for Dicky Moegle, because Dicky was a Southwest guy and they wanted guys who would draw in local fans. I couldn’t get a Texas drawl if I had too. So that’s how I ended up there.
What made you such a good player?
I played on offense, defense, and special teams. I was a top five punt and kickoff returner and led the league in return yards my rookie season so that helped.
Pittsburgh – it was just not a good place to play – mainly due to coaching. They had coaches that in my opinion shouldn’t have coached in the bush leagues. Parker and Layne would go out and get smashed together. That wasn’t conducive to good football. We played some good football but the players all went their own way. Nobody wanted anything to do with anybody. I think there were some good players there and if we were coached correctly we could have won more games. The only dominant team then was Cleveland – mostly because they had Jim Brown.
I didn’t get along with Brady Keys and Fred Williamson then. Not sure why Brady and I didn’t get along. But Williamson couldn’t pat himself on the back hard or often enough. I asked him if he could dislocate his shoulder so he could pat himself on his back more. We’d lose games but he’d spend the whole time bragging about what he did. I asked him how he could take pride in that when we lost?
Any good memories o your time in Pittsburgh?
The defensive backs coach was Jack Butler. He had hurt his knee bad – they almost had to cut it off – so they made him a coach. He was good to be around.
The one highlight I remember is when we played Dallas. They decided to play Don Meredith – their first round pick. I knew from playing with him that he liked to look at his receiver before the play. So he called an audible in the first quarter then looked right at his guy – a tight end. Now, I’m sitting right back eight yards for the tight end. I knew he was going to quick throw the ball to him so I jumped the pas and intercepted the ball and ran it 75 yards for a touchdown. There wasn’t a soul in front of me – no one chased me. I think everyone just quit on the play, but it felt like I would never get to the endzone.
I also remember my first punt return for a touchdown in Green Bay versus the Bears an other interceptions for touchdowns.
How did you end up in Minnesota after Pittsburgh?
Van Brocklin couldn’t stand Dick Haley and wanted to get rid of him. He traded Haley and Schnelker to Pittsburgh for me.
I was there for a dew years but then they wanted to trade me to the Rams. I told Van Brocklin there was no way at 30 years old I would go tot he Rams, so they put me on waivers. I was called then my Saskatchewan who had a guy get injured and wanted me to go up and play the season there. I asked how much they were paying and they told me $26,000 – that was huge money then. I told them my waist size was 32 – to have my uniform ready for me – I’ll be there!
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
