First, can you let me k ow what you’ve been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?
Well, currently I’ve been working for Canon selling copiers throughout the Pittsburgh area.
Was the post-NFL adjustment difficult for you?
It was definitely an adjustment. Back when we played big money then was $100k, maybe $120K. Jobs after football paid maybe $35,000 to $40,000. So it was difficult finding a job that could fulfill that challenge you found playing football and that paid enough. That part was difficult – finding something you just wanted to do.
You were drafted by the Steelers – was that a surprise to you? Did you know they had interest in you?
I had no idea they had interest in me. I thought I was going to be drafted by Detroit in the third round. At the combine I talked to some scouts and got calls before the draft. But I was happy I went to Pittsburgh – it worked out well for me
How was that adjustment for you and what made it easier?
I felt very comfortable going from the college to pro level because of my coach in college. Joe Moore was the best offensive line coach in college – he got us ready to play and got us ready for the next level.
I could see I was more advanced compared to guys at schools like Nebraska and Oklahoma. They had no clue about pass blocking – they were so run focused. That gave me an advantage over them – they had no clue about pass blocking.
Did anyone in Pittsburgh help mentor you – show you the ropes here?
Joe Moore was friends with Dan Radakovich who was a coach for the Steelers. Webster, Kolb, Courson – those guys would work out at our weight room at Pitt. I’d spend time with them and learned the trade of playing professional football and picked their brains on what it was like at the next level.
They taught me not to sweat the big stuff. The big thing was you go there to work. Every time you’re on the practice field you need to find something to work on. It’s about getting better. A lot of guys would come in and work on what they did well, but they taught me to work on what I didn’t do as well. That’s how you get better in your craft. We were taught to work on what we didn’t do well.
Were there guys you faced in the NFL that you enjoyed playing against most?
I always liked to play against guys I knew in college. Hugh Green was one of those guys – when I played him in Tampa Bay he’d trash talk a lot like he did when he played at Pitt.
Did you watch the Steelers game against Cleveland? How do you handle situations like the Garrett-Mason melee?
There’s always an opportunity for things to get to that point – it’s about self-control. But what Garrett did was absolutely criminal. Back in my day I wonder if he would have been able to walk off of the field after that. If as an offensive lineman we saw what was going on he was going down. He never should have done something like that.
Who were the leaders that kept everyone in line there?
The ultimate guy was Webster. He was a rock – you could never out-work him. When we were running 350’s, I thought as a rookie going up against a 12-year veteran, I’d be able to run circles around him. But by the end of the run I as trailing him. He was a freak of nature – he’d never let anyone out-work him. He taught me the little things that helped make me a better player.
And he had a sense of humor that I don’t think many fans anyway realized he had? Can you talk about that?
Oh yeah – you had to check your jock strap for Icy Hot every day. And at lunch, he act like he was going to hold the elevator for you then right before you’d step in he’d step out and press every button so you had to wait forever for it to come back.
Also on Fridays we’d have a locker room guy go get us fish sandwiches. Mike would hide Sulphur in one of the lockers so it smelled like shit, then he’d blame the locker room guy. That guy got it from all of the players. And of course, Mike never confessed. Mike? Hell no!
You were there for four years – what happened in ’85?
I got hurt in ’84 – I blew out my knee. When I came back to camp the next year my knee was still too sore to even practice. I saw the writing on the wall then. I was let go and signed with the Mistake on the Lake. That was a completely different transition. Noll’s camp versus Schottenheimer’s. I thought it was a vacation on the beach, practicing in Cleveland. It was a big difference.
Any thoughts about the game today, how it’s changed, and what younger guys should do to prepare for the NFL?
The game has changed so much. I talk to Tunch and Wolf and the fact that there are so fewer practices now – it’s made the game go in the other direction. The techniques players had then were much better. Good fundamental play today was poor play then.
Going from college to the pros, I’d recommend that you hook up with someone who an teach techniques – especially in pass protection. Pass protection is a dying art. Players are so big today they can’t even move. They’re not using their hands at all – they’re just trying to grab and hold. Aaron Donald just abuses people when they try to grab him. It’s poor technique. Guys aren’t focusing on knocking people off the ball as much. Now they’re just wrestling with them and looking to angle them where they want them to go instead of knocking them off the ball. The technique just isn’t there.
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