First, can you let us know what you’ve been doing since you’ve retired?
Well I’m just living my life – I’m retired of course and enjoying spending time with my grandchildren when I can see them. I live in Florida now and also get out and play some golf now and then.
I wanted to begin by discussing how you got started in coaching – what prompted your coaching start?
Bill Walsh is how I got started. I played for the Bengals for eight years and Bill was the offensive coordinator there – he and I became good friends. I retired from playing and had moved to California. I had just sold a chain of five delicatessens when Bill happened to call me in 1980. He asked if I would be interested in coaching – he had just started the coaching intern program and asked if I wanted to come in and coach during camp to see if I liked it.
I stayed a full year there with the 49ers – I shared a contract with Billy Wilson. Bill told me he’d help me get a coaching job after the season. He got me some interviews – mostly with colleges – then sent me to the East-West Game to scout players. I saw Forrest Gregg and Paul Brown there and they asked me what I was doing. It turned out they needed a special teams coach. I interviewed with them both in Paul’s condo – overlooking the ocean, watching the whales swim. It was an incredible place. They hired me after that.
So I worked my way up the coaching ladder in Cincinnati with a stint in New York then back again. That’s how I got started – by Bill Walsh. There are a lot of good coaches in his coaching tree.
What were some of the lessons and approaches you picked up from Bill and other guys you worked with?
Bill always said to be yourself – if you weren’t being yourself, players would pick up on that and think you were a phony. So that stuck with me. Of course I picked up on some tactics and ways to deal with players – those things. But I also learned from Bill Scovill who was my college coach and Buddy Ryan, who was a character.
As a player, what do you remember about those Steelers-Bengals rivalry games?
It started as a player yes – those 70’s Steelers teams were a dynasty. There was no other word for it. We played them tough though. We split games with them for a number of years and not many teams could say that. They just had no weaknesses – on defense or on offense.
Any specific memories stand out to you as a player?
I have one good story about Joe Greene. The Steelers played a 3-4 defense at times but it looked like an off-five sometimes with Greene and Fats lining up over guard. And they move those guys around a lot. That was part of the mystique of that defense.
Well, Bill Walsh invented a new play – a tight end trap. Me and Bob Trumpy were the tight ends. When Ken Anderson audibled – he would do so to the left or right, and depending on which side, I or Bob would step back. It depended on how the Steelers lined up.
Well Walsh called the play around the second quarter, and Anderson audibled to my side, I was the puller and trapper – so I stepped back from the line of scrimmage. My job was to trap Greene, and I hit Greene in the ribs – knocked him right on his ass. He just dusted himself off and said “Nice block.”
Well, later on Walsh called the play again, and Anderson audibled to my side – it was the same defense. I stepped back again and Joe just looked at me and smiled. I ran at him and hit him and my legs just buckled – he didn’t move. It was like hitting a wall. I fell to the ground and after the play he helped me up and told me “Tell Walsh not to call that play anymore!”
As a coach in Cincinnati, how was your relationship/rivalry with Bill Cowher and the Steelers?
I have a lot of respect for Bill – the upmost respect for him. He was a true gentlemen and a hell of a coach. It was a good rivalry but we always respected each other
I spoke with some of the Bengals guys you coached – Lemar Parrish, Ken Riley, Ken Anderson….a lot felt disrespected. A lot of potential Hall of Fame guys that don’t seem to be getting their due. Why do you think that is?
In the early 70’s the Bengals were still a new team. For whatever reason though those teams had some great players. We had a great quarterback and three of our four defensive backs made it to the Pro Bowl.
I guess the reason is because we never won the big one – never won a Super Bowl. Ken Anderson had better stats than Dan Fouts. Some of it is just politics but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. We even tried to get a campaign a few years ago to get Kenny in but it went nowhere, That’s just the way it goes. But having only one player in the Hall of Fame – Anthony Munoz – isn’t right.
Why do you think you were able to be so competitive with the Steelers as a head coach?
I just think we knew each other so well. Both franchises were stable. They had Bradshaw, we had Anderson. We knew each other so well – we both knew when we played it was going to be a tough day for both teams.
What do you think of the Steelers-Bengals rivalry today?
It’s different – the Bengals have a new coach. A couple of years ago under Marvin it was he and Tomlin – they were both there for years – it was like Paul Brown and Chuck Noll. I really don’t know how much of a rivalry it is with the new coach. You have to beat the teams in your division if you want to win your division – so in those terms it will always be a rivalry. But in today’s climate of football, with free agency, it’s all so different. Looking at it right now the big rivalry I’d say Pittsburgh and Baltimore is the big rivalry right now.
What do you think of the NFL today? Like it?
No. There’s too much money and ego. The players today have no idea what we went through to build the league. There’s not enough respect for what we did. We gave our lives for the league and I don’t think today’s players appreciate that. Maybe it’s just old man talk. But it pisses me off – there’s nothing I can do about it though.
Any thoughts on coaching again?
I think the game has passed me by. It’s so different now. I’m sure I could re-learn much of it but I really have no desire too. I missed the game for a few years after I stopped playing but I’m over it now. I have no desire to get back into it.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
