First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing since your time in the NFL?
When I quit I did a couple of things. I got into the construction business – pouring concrete for basement walls and that sort of things here in Missouri. I mixed that in with a little fun. I have an RV as do my two daughters and we often go RV’ing locally here in Missouri – out to Branson or the state parks.
Was that post-NFL adjustment difficult for you?
No because during the offseason I worked down in Florida. We had a home in Ft. Lauderdale and my brother-in-law built homes there. So I worked for him in the offseason. I couldn’t justify just sitting around all Winter. We didn’t make much money then anyhow.
You started your career in Cleveland – how did you end up in Pittsburgh?
I played seven years in Cleveland before I retired. Then I went down to Ft. Lauderdale and was getting ready to work when I got a call from the Steelers’ front office. They wanted to know if I’d come up and play for a couple of years. They had lost a number of receivers to injury and needed help. I made the decision and went up for two years.
Buddy Parker was the coach then. After those two seasons they had a party and I asked him what he’d suggest for me now that my two years were over. He asked if I ever considered coaching and I said yes. He told me he would have hired me if he had an opening but that he would let me know if he heard of an opening.
That’s when your coaching career started?
After two months I got a call from Parker. He told me there was a new franchise starting in Minnesota and they hired Norm Van Brocklin as the head coach. He told Norm about me and told me to call him and see what would develop. I did and after I talked to Dutch he said to come up. I signed a contract, sent for my wife and family, and coached there for seven years. After that my wife and I decided to retire and go back to Ft. Lauderdale. We didn’t like the weather in Minnesota.
Before I got out of town though I got a call from Hank Schram in Kansas City. He wanted me to come coach with him. I knew Hank from my college days. I went back and forth between yes and no, yes and no, and then visited him. It was a nice organization so I said we’d try it. We were there for 10 years. Then I quit and retired again.
You were also a good basketball player in college – why choose football?
When I was in college at Purdue I went there on a basketball scholarship, but they asked me to play football as well. I ended up being drafted by what were then the Chicago Cardinals. I went to the College All Star Game where we played the NFL champions, and it was there I learned I was traded to Cleveland. Burl Towler was a linebacker Chicago really liked but Cleveland drafted him, and Cleveland needed a receiver, so they made a swap. That’s how I got to Cleveland.
What was it like – the difference between Cleveland and Pittsburgh then?
It was like daylight and darkness. In Cleveland they had very strict rules. In Pittsburgh it was an altogether different situation. Parker kept things loose – he let a lot of things happen. The players were freer to do things.
Brown and Parker were both teachers of the game. It’s funny. When I was traded to Cleveland I thought I was on the team. I didn’t realize I still had to make the team!
The thing that I enjoyed about Cleveland versus Pittsburgh was the methods they used in Cleveland. Paul Brown would tell us that today, we’d practice defense for one-hour and 45 minutes. When the time was up, that was it, we were done. The next day we’d practice offense for one-hour and 30 minutes. Then we were done. He did everything that same way. It was a fun time. We’d practice then study football.
Brown would have us see something, write it down first, then practice it. Those were the three things he felt we needed to do to be a good football player. That helped you remember and learn.
In Pittsburgh it was very different. They didn’t do any of those things. Parker would have us go out and practice for as long as he wanted us too. It was just very different.
Any fun stories of Bobby Layne, who you played with in Pittsburgh?
Bobby Layne and I got along good. One funny story he told me was when he played in Detroit. Everyone there knew him. One day he was driving home and he was pulled over by the police. They said he wasn’t driving right, or something like that. They knew he was inebriated. Bobby asked them why they were pulling him over when they only had one headlight. The policeman told Bobby. “That’s because it’s a motorcycle, Bobby.” Then they told his buddy who was in the car with him to get him home!
Any other guys you got close to and have some good stories of?
In Cleveland Jim Ray Smith and I did Bible study together and attended church together. I was close to Ray Renfro too.
Otto Graham said I was the most underrated receiver on the team. It was me and Dante Lavelli and Lavelli always hollered out to Otto to throw him the ball, whether he was open or not. That took the attention away from me. I remember one big catch I had near the goal line where I fell and got up and jumped into the endzone as guys jumped on top of me.
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