First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?
Yeah I’ve been doing a couple of things work-wise. I have a commercial construction company – the Rossum Group – and we work a lot with the Department of Transportation and the City of Atlanta and state municipalities in Georgia working on everything from libraries to roadwork.
I’m also part of a group that owns apartment complexes in the United States – about 20,00 to 30,000 units across the country. That was formed in 2014 with two good friends, one of who recently passed away.
In my leisure time I am a husband and have four kids. I have a consulting business and am the head coach for a youth track and field team. This is my third year and we’ve had 100% of the kids go to college. There’s a wide array of talent there and kids have gone to Notre Dame to the Savannah School of Design. It goes through mid-December through July.
And in my free time – not that I have any – I like to go to movies and just hang out with my wife!
How hard was the post-NFL transition for you?
I was fortunate to walk away under my own terms. I had the opportunity to play and I decided to walk away. I had a good job waiting for me. While I was playing I set up companies and was able to offset my down time after playing.
The biggest thing is to find that high you find when playing in the NFL. Playing on Sundays or on Thanksgiving when 80,000 are watching you in the stadium and 80 million on TV. And when I was upset I couldn’t take it out on opponents or in the weight room for two hours. Having four daughters, I didn’t have those outlets when I retired. But I did find it in work and at home.
Having been a terrific track and field athlete in college, did you ever consider track over football?
Well thank you. But if not for football I’d have gone into philanthropy or some business venture. It was difficult to go from football to regular life. I was never formally even in a job interview. I never even put together a resume. I never had to – I just spoke with people to figure out if we should work together.
So I never really considered track and field as more than something that I did in college. I broke the records on campus – but I didn’t think about it after that.
Fast-forwarding a bit, let’s talk about how you found yourself in Pittsburgh after years in Atlanta and Green Bay?
Well, I was brought there in a trade – on the last day of cuts. Petrino – he used to coach Louisville and came to Atlanta and tried to reshape the Falcons. He got rid of all the leaders on the team including me. I was one of those guys. I had a good offseason though and wasn’t very worried. But thank goodness Tomlin and the Rooney family pulled the trigger just in time and traded for me. I don’t think Petrino lasted much longer than I did!
I had a good year there. I had an early touchdown return. I just wasn’t a good fit personally with the special teams coach Ligashesky then. I enjoyed my time there though and my wife’s family were huge Steelers fans. We gave my father-in-law 20-to-30 tickets a game – as if they were free! My father-in-law used to call me every week “Black and gold! Black and gold!” he’s tell me!. I had to talk to my wife and let her know we were paying for those tickets!
Still, I wouldn’t trade my time with guys like Deshea, Hines and Troy for nothing. And I loved living on the Southside – just five minutes from work!
What were the issues you had with Ligashesky?
We just had different opinions on how to use me. I may have been too high on myself – maybe a little too much on my self and I don’t think he liked that. But I told him that I have to believe in myself. If I don’t believe in me how could I expect him too?
I was the guy that studied teams four-to-six weeks ahead of time. I was working on the game plans Tuesdays. I’d come in to practice at 7 am and meetings at 8 am if they started at 9 am. I took care of my body – I didn’t drink. I did the massages and cold tubs. I wanted to do the extra things.
I had 10 years as a vet. The year before I played against Pittsburgh and had close to 300 return yards. I think that’s why they decided to bring me in. I just wanted my opinions to be respected more. I respected the coaches but wanted them to listen to me as a vet too. In Atlanta that’s what made us good. They’d ask me if I wanted to run the ball up the middle like a 225 pound guy, or run it around the edge like the 185 pound guy that I was.
Then after the season they asked me to take a one-million dollar pay cut. I said no respectfully, so we mutually agreed for me to go elsewhere. I got my money in San Francisco then rode off into the sunset after turning down a three-year offer from Dallas.
That was also Mike Tomlin’s first season as Pittsburgh’s head coach. What did you notice about how the players reacted to him that season?
I liked Tomlin – he was just a couple of years older than me though! He knew what he was doing and came from a great coaching tree under Tony Dungy. He had a great mind for getting guys motivated. Lou Holtz had that even though he never played – they both could see the pulse of the team.
Tomin’s one-liners and cliche’s – guys thought I was crazy when I laughed during meetings at those all the time. They were hysterical. Now when I’m a coach kids get a kick out of me and my one-liners. My wife would even ask if I just came up with that. There’s no telling what you say as a coach sometimes!
Any fun moments that stand out about your time in Pittsburgh?
I played against Deshea and Troy before I came to Pittsburgh. And Troy in meetings was one of the funniest guys I ever met. We had a Hall of Fame coach in Dick LeBeau and here’s Troy going through every line of every Eddie Murphy movie during the meetings, especially Norbit, when he imitated the guy’s voice. It’s not like I could learn anything watching Troy on tape either – he’d line up at the line of scrimmage even when he was playing the deep third.
He was hilarious – he had a great sense of humor. And he and Ryan Clark were like yin and yang. Clark was the straight-line guy – he’d do things right down the line and line up perfectly in position. Troy was the opposite way. My twin daughters are the same way. One will open up a bottle of water in the middle of the Pastor’s preaching and I’d ask her why she would do that! My other twin – the one in Stanford – if you told her how to do a drill she’d do it just that way and would tell everyone else to stop talking when the coach was talking!
You were known as a returner. But do you feel you were respected and used enough as a cornerback?
Of course not! I thought I was a good corner. I made Ben upset on the scout teams. I’d sit on routes – who was going to run past me!
On the scout team I’d ask them not to tell me the route – I wanted to hone my skills. I think I was looked down on for my height. In Philadelphia and Atlanta I played a lot of corner and nickel. I knew the schemes. But I didn’t get those chances in Pittsburgh.
In a playoff game when I played for Green Bay I even played middle linebacker. The starter went down and they knew I knew the system and the position and could cover Marshall Faulk. But then they realized I was playing middle linebacker and ran it right at me! And Brett Favre’s interceptions didn’t help either. I did have a 98-yard kickoff return in the game too.
So you wanted to play more corner?
Yes. You make more money playing corner, but at least I had a niche. Lou Holtz found that niche when I was at Notre Dame. He said he heard I returned a kick for a touchdown in high school so asked me to do it once a game, and I returned one for a touchdown against Purdue. Then he asked me to do it more and I had more success. Holtz announced then that they found their kick returner, but I needed to learn how to catch the ball better! I got nervous looking up at the ball and would catch it between my legs and over my shoulder. I was afraid of getting hit!
That’s how I became a return guy. But I felt I could have played more corner in the NFL. But what player doesn’t feel like they could do more in the NFL? And would you want one that didn’t? I just wanted to maximize every moment and chance.
Lastly, what makes a good return man?
You have to be a daredevil! People ask me the difference between returning kicks and punts. Kick returners get more time. I tell them punt returners are like jumping out of airplanes. You hope you get the ball before the players get to you, and you hope your guys block the other guys enough for you to have a chance. The rules have changed, but it’s still 11 guys looking to take your head off.
On returns, the whole focus of the other team is just to hurt and intimidate you. I enjoyed it. I loved the opening kickoffs on Monday Nights against New England or Kansas City. Really loud stadiums and then the crowd goes silent when you return it. I loved it. I enjoyed it so much.
Or when the crowd is cheering for you since you’re the only one returning the ball. I felt that. I enjoyed that like nothing else. The best part is you get to be a normal guy when you get home. The kids had no idea what I was doing for the last four hours. The girls running to the door to see me after rough days. They could care less. I was their dad – not an All Pro. That was the most satisfying thing, That’s why I turned down a three-year offer to play in Dallas.
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