First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your time coaching and playing?
Well, I’ve been retired for six years or so now – since 2015. I was the Supervisor of Athletics for Baltimore City Public Schools up until then. Since then my wife and I have been traveling a lot – at least before the pandemic. We went to South Africa most recently.
I still do some consulting for local schools to help them with their athletic programs and spend time with my family. That’s about it though now.
You were a prestigious basketball coach in the Maryland area for years – but started off as a football player. How did that come about?
I was a three-sport participant in high school – I was the son of a single mother who worked all day. There was no reason to come home after school since she got home so late. I just did all the activities at school – all the sports – baseball, football, basketball…
I was the quarterback on the football team, played a number of different spots for baseball and was the seventh man on the basketball team. But I always sat next to my basketball coach – legendary coach William “Sugar” Cain. I watched how he coached – his philosophy. I gravitated to him – he was like a father to me.
When my football days were over, I got a job at a local high school. The basketball coach there had taken ill, and they asked if I could fill in for him. That’s how my basketball career got started.
What lessons from playing football helped with coaching basketball?
It wasn’t just about football. In every sport you need discipline and structure. I was a big believer in being simple – not too complex. You see a lot of coaches with these complex schemes, but I just believed in keeping it simple and working hard on the fundamentals.
In Pittsburgh, Coach Austin was a stern disciplinarian. They didn’t use the spread offense like they do now – it was double-slot and split backfields. They didn’t let it get complex. If every guy took care of his responsibilities, the whole unit would be successful.
How did you end up in Pittsburgh in ’68?
I was drafted by the Colts – I was a local guy – I played at Morgan. In college my coach moved me from quarterback to defensive back – my arm was just not strong enough to play quarterback. I was so grateful he did. Back then they didn’t have a real rotational system – you played both ways and I as a freshman was behind LeRoy Kelly who later was a star running back for the Browns.
They wanted me to be LeRoy’s understudy. He got hurt though his Senior year with a thigh bruise before the Orange Blossom Classic – we were playing Florida Atlantic and that was a big game for the HBCU’s then. I ended up playing that game – that was my first experience in a big game like that.
Later on I was drafted by the Colts and they traded me to the Steelers. They had me, Clendon Thomas and Paul Martha at safety, and Marv Woodson on the other side. I had a good year there – we didn’t win a lot but I thought I played well.
What happened after that season?
It was time for my contract to be re-negotiated. I didn’t have a fancy agent then – my old college coach was my agent. Dan Rooney made me an offer and we thought it should have been better so we didn’t sign it.
I went to Latrobe for training camp and they put me down from first to second team trying to pressure me to sign. That didn’t work so they finally traded me to the Redskins – Coach Austin was an assistant coach there and Lombardi had just come back to coach them. I played there then finished my career in Denver.
You played under Noll in Baltimore then under him in camp in Latrobe. Was he the same guy in both places?
I wasn’t there that long in ’69 before they traded me. Noll was the defensive backs coach in Baltimore when I was there. He was low-key there just like he was in Pittsburgh. He preached technique – to work hard on technique. In Baltimore we had me, Volk, Lyles, Boyd, Stukes….He was soft-spoken and knowledgeable with us there like he was in Pittsburgh. Same guy.
Who were some of the guys you got close to there?
I was close with Rocky Bleier – we both stayed at the same complex – the Washington Plaza across from the Civic Arena. He and I became close. Roy Jefferson too – he was one of the key outspoken guys. Dick Hoak too – he was very knowledgeable – a very versatile player too.
Any memories stand out most to you?
The biggest memory is when we played the Eagles at Pitt Stadium – that was our home field then. It was built-up as the O.J. bowl – people said whoever lost that game would likely get to draft O.J. Simpson.
Well, the Eagles drove to our two-yard line with under a minute left, trailing 6-3. It was fourth down and they decided to go for it instead of kicking a field goal to tie the game. I made the game-saving tackle on Tim Woodeshick – their big fullback to save the game. That was a big moment for me.
What kind of defensive back were you – how would you describe yourself?
I played on the strong side of the defense – I had good speed and size – I was 6’3″. 205 pounds. I think teams started looking for big corners like me then after Kansas City’s Otis Taylor destroyed the defensive backs of Minnesota in the Super Bowl. Everyone wanted big defensive backs after that.
Any fun moments or players on that Steelers team that stand out?
Roy Jefferson and Marv Woodson would get after each other – clowning around all the time, playing jokes on each other. They’d hide each other’s shoes and put hot stuff in each other’s underwear – stuff like that. The Steelers didn’t win a lot of games then but we were a close-knit group and worked hard. When Noll came in, that’s when they turned the tide.
Was it tough when you were traded to Pittsburgh, knowing they weren’t a great team then?
For me the trade was just an opportunity for me to play and help my family. I was grateful. It wasn’t too far from home – my wife and I just had our first son so it was great playing close to them, and it was an up-and-coming program. I was happy to be a part of it.
And when you were traded to Washington?
I thought I had a decent season and deserved a better contract. I was disappointed. Dan just told me this was their offer – that was it. There wasn’t any negotiation and they controlled the purse strings.
But, I respected them. They were very community-oriented. They loved their community and did what they could to help it – and they wanted us to be a part of it. They treated us like professionals.
What else stands out to you about your time in the NFL?
It was just a thrill to try and cover guys like Bob Hayes, Homer Jones, Paul Warfield, Charlie Taylor – the premier receivers at the time. And going up against Roy Jefferson in practice made me a better player too. He gave you his all every play and was tremendous after the catch.
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