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Tim Gleason, Author, From Black to Gold (September 1,  2011):

First, can you tell readers about yourself and how you came to write the book From Black to Gold?

I am a die-hard fan from the early 1960s.  I remember Bid Daddy Lipscomb and the heartbreaking 1963 season.  I always wanted to write a book about a fan’s perspective of the Steelers.  

That’s what makes this book rather unique.  If you’ve ever worn a Jersey, screamed at the television or tailgated on the North Shore, this book is for you.  Fans will relate to this book Because it was written by one of them.

What surprised you most about the organization as you researched and wrote the book?

Surprise is probably not a fair word, but I was struck by how warm the Rooney family and organization is.  

I met Dan a couple times and talked to me as if I were someone important.  His son, Art II, also understands the importance of the connection between the team and Steeler Nation.  I met him walking around the stadium before a game.  You just don’t see that everywhere, or maybe anywhere.  

And Art Jr., he actually called me on the phone a couple times and agreed to write the forward for the book.  I took my daughter to meet him for lunch one day.  It’s incredible.  The Rooneys are just like the Chief.  He taught everyone to be humble and grounded, and they are.

Every fan has a positive and negative perceptions of their teams. What about your research helped dispel any of those perceptions?

Steeler Nation has very high expectations.  The fans don’t accept anything short of winning Super Bowls and that disheartens me a bit.  It’s not about the end, but about the journey.  

Sure, we all want to hoist the Lombardi at the end, but to me the joy is the Draft, the preseason banter, the tailgating and most importantly, the hope.  I talk about this perspective in the book.  

I urge fans to enjoy the ride.

How has the team changed organizationally over the years in its approach to team-building and it’s relationship with fans?

The team changed dramatically in 1969 and not ironically, my book is titled from Black to Gold, with 1969 being the watershed.  

Up until then the Chief hired his cronies and locals to coach the team and we were never successful.  In 1969, Dan took over and hired Chuck Noll.  The Steelers have had only two coaches since then.  Prior to 1969, the Steelers traded Draft picks like they were bubble gum cards.  Since then, the team has relied on the single focus of building teams through the Draft.  

They trust their Draft, give players a fair chance and then pay them well.  Stability is the cornerstone of Pittsburgh’s success.  There are many who read this who weren’t around when mankind first walked on the moon, and to think that since that day, the Steelers have hired only two head coaches and the second one is still young and hopefully will be around for a while.  That’s pretty amazing.

What changed in the late 60’s and early 70’s to turn the team from sad sack to Super Bowl champions?

The undercurrent was the efforts of Art Rooney Jr. and the scouting department.

The Steelers hired Bill Nunn in the late 60s.  He was the first African American executive hired in the NFL.  Nunn was wired into all the Black southern colleges, so the Steelers were way ahead of the game in drafting talented players from relatively obscure colleges.  Joe Greene, L.C. Greenwood, Dwight White, Ernie Holmes, John Stallworth, Mel Blount, on and on, came from small Black colleges.  

The trilogy was fascinating.  While three rivers were converging at Point Park in Pittsburgh, another threesome converged in the front offices of the Steelers:  Dan Rooney began running the team, Chuck Noll began coaching it and Art Rooney Jr. and his staff put together the best six years of drafting in NFL history.

What memories of the team, as a fan, most affected you?

All the losing in the 1960s.  I fell in love with the team unconditionally.  It made me appreciate the 1970s so much more.  

I’ll bet the same could be said for younger fans who fell in love with the team in the 1980s.  It made the 90s and 2000s that much sweeter.  Anyone can love a winner, but show me the fan who can name the head coach of the team before Chuck Noll and I’ll show you the best fan in the world!

What do you think the Chief would say about today’s NFL and Steelers?

I don’t think the Chief would be comfortable today.  

The NFL is a world of seclusion and lawyers and big money.  The Chief was more of a regular people guy.  He used to walk around with tickets giving them away to people on the streets.  He would collect those little whiskey bottles on airplanes and give them to the grounds crew.  He worried about whether the mailman had tickets to playoff games.  The Chief went to racetracks all the time.  Owners can’t do that
now.  

I think the Chief would choose to live in the era that he did, though he would be very proud of his sons and grandson.  Art II can’t be his grandfather.  The world has changed too much, but he still understands the values that the Chief instilled in him.  I talk about this a lot in the book, again, written by a fan for fans.

Where can readers buy your book?

Fromblacktogold.com

Any new books on the horizon?

No, this was a once-in-a-lifetime thing for me, a “bucket-list” goal of mine.  I’ve been blessed to have so many great reviews.  I think I’ll quit while I’m ahead  

Any last thoughts for readers?

Enjoy the journey of being a fan.  Never let the disappointment of not winning the Super Bowl supersede the joy of following and loving the team.

Matthew Algeo, Author, Last Team Standing: How the Pittsburgh Steelers and Philadelphia
Eagles–The ‘Steagles’–Saved Pro Football During World War II (July 15,  2011):

First, what made you decide to write the “Last Team Standing: How the Pittsburgh Steelers and Philadelphia Eagles-–The ‘Steagles’-–Saved Pro Football During World War II?”

In 2003 the Steelers honored the Steagles on their 40th anniversary before a pre-season game in Pittsburgh against the Eagles. I covered the event for the NPR program Only A Game. (You can listen to my story here: //onlyagame.wbur.org/2003/08/30/show-rundown-for-8302003.)

As an Eagles fan, I was vaguely aware of the Steagles, but I hadn’t really thought about them much until then.

How hard was it to track down and interview the surviving members of the Steagles?

I believe nine members of the Steagles were still surviving in 2003. Six were able to attend the ceremonies in Pittsburgh, and I interviewed each of them at that time. I also did follow-up interviews with them later.

I was also able to speak with the other three surviving Steagles on the phone. They weren’t that hard to track down. Between the Internet and an address list for autograph collectors that I bought, I found them all. And they were all very kind and generous with their time.
 
Who were some of the more memorable players and coaches you interviewed, and what made them so?

Al Wistert, an Eagles tackle, is a real character, and always fun to be around. He had a great career; he played on the Eagles championship teams in 1948 and 1949. He should be in the Hall of Fame. He was a rookie on the Steagles in 1943 and had plenty of memories to share.

Ted Doyle, a Steelers tackle, was also a lot of fun, a real no-nonsense guy with a great sense of humor. I spent a couple hours chatting with him at his home in Omaha.

During the 1943 season the players were required to work full-time in war jobs. Ted worked at a Westinghouse factory in Pittsburgh. Years later he realized he was helping build parts for the atomic bomb!

In researching the book, what surprised you most?

How different football was in 1943.

For the most part the players played both offense and defense. And they were tiny compared with modern players. But, since they played both ways, and even covered kickoffs and punts, they were in amazing shape.

I asked Al Wistert what would happen if the Steagles played a modern team, and he said something like, If we played by the old rules, they’d probably score ten touchdowns against us in the first quarter, but by halftime they’d all be dead.

Can you imagine today’s 300-pound linemen playing both ways as well as covering kickoffs and punts?
 
What types of characters made up the team – who were the standouts and “stars”?

Lots of characters on the team!

One was Bill Hewitt. He’d retired in 1939, but came out of retirement to play for the Steagles because he was offered something like $500 a game – more money than he’d ever earned playing football.

But he’d never played with a helmet before – they’d been made mandatory since his retirement – and he hated it. He’d throw his helmet off and say, “I can’t wear this!” But he was pretty washed up, and ended up quitting the team in the middle of the season.

The two biggest stars were probably an Eagles back named Jack Hinkle and a Steelers receiver named Tony Bova. Hinkle led the team in rushing, and would have led the entire league except for a scorekeeping error – one of his longest runs of the season was erroneously attributed to a teammate.

Bova led the Steagles in receiving – and he was blind in one eye!
 
How did the coaches and players mesh and get along as the teams merged? Any examples?

As the season went along, the players got along quite well. Not the coaches however.

The Eagles’ Greasy Neale and the Steelers’ Walt Kiesling couldn’t stand each other. Officially they were co-head coaches, but since they barely spoke to each other, Art Rooney suggested that Neale handle the offense and Kiesling the defense.

This is one of the earliest examples of separate offensive and defensive coordinators in pro football.
 
Who were the locker room leaders and how did they help unite these two teams?
 
The Steagles were an interesting mix of veterans and rookies.

In the book I describe an incident in one game that shows how the two teams managed to meld so successfully.

It was late in the game. Greasy Neale had ordered the Steagles quarterback, an Eagles rookie named Allie Sherman, to just run out the clock. (Sherman went on to become head coach of the Giants in the 1960s.) But in the huddle, Ted Doyle, the Steelers veteran, told Sherman, “Just follow me.” Doyle knew he could make a hole for Sherman to run through.

Sherman ended up running for a touchdown. Neale was furious because his order had been disobeyed. But that touchdown shows how the Steelers and Eagles were able to play as one team.

What role did the Rooneys play in the merger of the teams and in making it successful?
 
Art Rooney and Bert Bell were the co-owners of the Steelers at the time. (Bell, of course, would later sell his share to become NFL commissioner.)

The Steelers had just had their first winning season in 1942, but after that season their roster was decimated because so many players were inducted into the military. I think they had fewer than ten players under contract at one point in the summer of ’43.

Rooney and Bell were on very good terms with the Eagles owner, Alexis Thompson, so they Approached him about the possibility of a merger. Thompson agreed, but only if the majority of the games were played in Philadelphia.

Ultimately, what enabled the team to become successful?

A combination of good coaching and good players.

Greasy Neale was a brilliant coach. He was the second NFL coach to adopt the T formation after GeorgeHalas. And Walt Kiesling was an excellent defensive coach. And the Steagles had a core group of excellent players (like Jack Hinkle and Tony Bova).

Also, in all honesty, the level of play in 1943 was not very high. So many players had gone off to war that the teams the Steagles played weren’t nearly as good as they would have been otherwise.
 
How did two sets of rival fans come to accept this team? Did they – and if so, how and why did they?
 
Initially, the Pittsburgh fans were miffed because most of the Steagles’ home games were played in Philadelphia.

I think one pre-season and two regular season games were played at Forbes Field. But as the season progressed, and it became apparent that the Steagles were actually a pretty good team, interest in the team in Pittsburgh increased dramatically.

In Philadelphia, the Steagles produced the first winning season in the history of the Eagles franchise, and interest in the team was very high. The last game of the season, against the Packers at Shibe Park, was probably the best-attended game in the history of the Eagles franchise up to that point.

How was the game different then versus today’s game?
 
One word: Money.

Some of the players probably made as little as $100 of $150 a game. And the owners weren’t getting  rich, either. Art Rooney constantly fretted about money.

Any other thoughts for readers?

Yes: Please buy my book! It’s on Amazon:
//www.amazon.com/Last-Team-Standing-Pittsburgh-Philadelphia/dp/0306815761/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3