First off, what have you been up to since your time in the NFL?
Well, I’m retired now. I play a lot of pickleball and have a lot of grandkids, so I do a lot of things with them – sporting events and those types of things. I also play a lot of golf when the weather is nice. And I stay involved in the community.
You are involved with the NFL Alumni Association there too correct?
I’m President of the local chapter here yes. We focus a lot on kids – reading programs for kids to ensure they don’t get too far behind. We have a golf tournament we do with St. Elizabeth’s Hospital as well.
What took you to Cincinnati in the first place?
I was drafted by Detroit but they released me and Oakland picked me up. That was actually John Madden’s last game he coached, so it’s cool to have been there for his last game even though I didn’t kick the ball that game.
In ’79 I made the team but they really liked Chris Bahr, so when he was released by Cincinnati in 1980, they signed him and released me. 13 weeks later the Bengals signed me – they were making some changes there.
Who were some of the mentors you had as a kicker?
Jan Stenerud – when he played in Sacramento I read up on him and watched his technique. It was a cool way to learn about how he kicked and that style. Few at that time knew about soccer style kicking – I was learning really by trial and error.
Why soccer style?
I thought it was cool and kicking it the other way hurt my toe! The turning point was when I qualified for the punt, pass and kick competition when I was 12. That was in San Francisco. I was one step away from getting on the field – I had the longest throw and my punt was good, but I shanked the placekick. I still think about that to this day! I was torn on how to do it and it was this mix of different styles that just was a disaster. From then on I decided to do it just one way.
Also, in kick ball the left field fence was the shortest away, so I used a soccer style kick to get it out there.
So you owe your career to kickball!
Ha exactly! It’s funny because I had no soccer playing experience at all until after I retired.
Were you very aware of the Steelers-Bengals rivalry at first?
I was quite aware of it as a Raiders fan. I was a huge Raiders fan growing up so I knew all about the Steelers.
When I first got to Cincinnati I’d heard the stories. In 1980 I played the last four games there but none against the Steelers. In 1981 we played the Steelers – I was just amazed seeing guys like Bradshaw, Ham, Lambert, Harris, Blount, Bleier…. I was in awe. And then in ’81 we handled them well and won the division in Pittsburgh.
That was sort of the changing of the guard. There were a lot of changes in Pittsburgh after that – I think they let the team get too old due to all those vets they had. Really, in the 80’s Cleveland and Houston were our biggest rivals. Sam Wyche used to hate Jerry Glanville then. I was on a USO trip with with Jerry to Iraq and I asked hm why, and he told me the only reason he could think of is that he cut Sam when he was his quarterback coach in Detroit! But Jerry’s teams of course played a little beyond the whistle!
In the 90’s my career was winding down – that’s when Cowher was there and things turned again for the Steelers and they became like those 70’s teams – every year they were great.
Cowher, and now Tomlin and Harbaugh with the Ravens – they made sure those teams were so mentally tough. Even last year Tomlin, with questions on who was playing quarterback, had that team win nine games! He’s as good of a coach as I’ve ever seen. There are so many players who would play for him in a heartbeat. I know some Steelers fans would disagree – I see those comments – but from an outsider’s perspective he’s as good of a coach as there is – those teams always seem to play better than they should.
Any good memories from those Steelers games that you can share?
I remember when I missed a field goal versus Pittsburgh and Rod Woodson came up and started trash talking. My holder was our punter Lee Johnson – he got indignant and after the game he started running after Woodson. I asked him what he was doing – that Woodson would kick his butt! But he said he just wanted to go and talk to him a little!
In ’81 we were lined up to try a 57 yard field goal – there was no way we were really going to kick it – it was going to be a punt. The Steelers were running guys on and off the field when Lambert comes up and just drills our center Blair Bush. It was fourth and four so it gave us a first down. We ended up driving for a touchdown and winning the game. I remember looking over at the Steelers sideline and seeing Lambert slugging himself in the head – his face had blood on it – because he was so upset at himself.
Any other ones stand out?
I also remember that crazy play on Monday Night Football when Keith Gary twisted Ken Anderson’s head by the facemark so far the name on the back of his jersey and his head were faced the same way.
A funny one for us was when we ran a fake punt for a touchdown in 1986 – Jeff Hall took it 76 yards. Noll was so angry he swore it would never happen again. Well later that year Hall took another punt for 30 yards – Noll went crazy.
And maybe the funniest one was when we were playing in Pittsburgh. They had the low fence near the sidelines. Well, the equipment guys and players put their stuff on the tables and benches back there. Boomer Esiason put his helmet back there once and soon after we started hearing all of this noise. We turned around and see this guy jumping back over the fence with Boomer’s helmet! He never got that one back either! Luckily they found another one to fit him!
What do you think of the way the kicking game has changed in the NFL?
It’s amazing. I think about young golfers now who hit the ball much further than guys in my era did. Pitchers too – many throw over 100 mph when 90 was a big deal.
It’s a time thing. These guys are better athletes and the money is bigger. I literally had no idea what I was doing – it was all trial and error. Now these guys have camps and experts starting in junior high school to help them. It’s a huge difference.
Any last thoughts on the rivalry?
I know people here hate the Steelers because they’ve been so successful, but we have a lot of respect for them for the same reason.
Dick LeBeau was one of my favorite coaches, even though he didn’t coach me directly. He started in Cincinnati, went to Pittsburgh, came back then went back to Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh his defenses were always top three, but in Cincinnati his defense was like 22. I asked him what the difference was and he told me that “In Pittsburgh the players always asked for more, more, more. In Cincinnati they always asked for less, less, less!” I think at the time those Steelers players were able to handle so much more.
It’s so good to see him in the Hall of Fame. He built that defense in Cincinnati but built his reputation in Pittsburgh.