First, can you let readers know what you’ve been doing with yourself these days!
Well, now that I’m retired I spend a lot of my time on the golf course. I do that about two to three days a week. I also like to garden and anything else that keeps me occupied.
After you retired from the NFL, you joined the US Marshals Service and were one of the original agents for the United States Federal Witness Protection Program. How did that come about?
I was a US Marshal for twenty years. I had to retire at an early age – you had to because it was hazardous duty so you have to retire at 55. I thought I’d never take another job after that, but after six or seven months at home I took a job with the state as a property evaluation officer.
At the time you either had to go to college or have police work in your background to get a Marshal job. But my father-in-law was big in politics and had a friend who was a U.S. Marshal. They had a vacancy, so my father-in-law went to talk to the Washington representative to get me in. There were two other applicants but you couldn’t be over 40 years old and that made both of those applicants ineligible. I got the job and was happy to have it!
How did your time in the NFL help your post-NFL career?
I guess it helped me learn to get along with other people. That was a major thing in the witness protection program. You needed to be able to understand people. I wasn’t a psychologist, but I learned what needed to be done.
You were a first round pick in 1954 – eighth overall. Were you surprised to go that high?
I went to the Redskins eighth overall, but I went into the service for two years before I played football. I was out of the service in ’56 and was traded to Green Bay after two years and played under Vince Lombardi there. I was in training camp in ’61 when I was traded to Dallas. I played in the six exhibition games there when Tom Landry called me in and told me to bring my family down – that I had made the team. Then two days later he told me I was traded to Pittsburgh…
How did you go from there to St. Louis?
I was only in Pittsburgh for three or four games – Bobby Layne was the only guy I knew there. Landry said he wanted to go with youth on the team. I was in my latter years – he was trying to build the team up.
After three games the Steelers released me. A week later I went to St. Louis for two games but got hurt. I quit after that – I wasn’t going to go back again after that.
What memories stand out most for you of your time in the NFL and in Pittsburgh?
I don’t remember many of the people in Pittsburgh – I wasn’t there that long. In 1960, we played the Philadelphia Eagles in the National Football Championship. The Eagles beat us 21-17. My fellow high school friend was Chuck Bednarik – that was his last game and he played the entire game both ways. He played linebacker and center.
That was two years before they introduced the Super Bowl. They make hundreds of thousands of dollars now, but then the losing team made $2,500. The winning team made $5,000. What a difference! I was a number one choice and I signed for a $2,500 signing bonus. My salary was $7,500. Imagine that! I’m glad for the kids today – that they make so much money now. I wish I was born today!
You played for a number of great coaches…
I played for three great coaches – Bear Bryant in Kentucky, Tom Landry in Dallas and Vince Lombardi in Green Bay.
Lombardi and Bryant were exactly the same. They were great motivators. They knew when to be on you and when to lay off. They knew how to go back and forth and without going too far.
What did you think of Steelers’ coach Buddy Parker and the team then?
Buddy was a good guy. He was a nice coach. Mike Nixon was with the Redskins when I was there and he was the defensive backs coach when I got to Pittsburgh. He was the first person to come looking for me when I got there. When their tight end came back from the service, that’s when I got cut…
Bobby Layne and the rest of us would practice in the city park – and there was a bar down the street. After every practice he’d go to the bar and drink beer like it was water. I went with him a couple of times but stopped – I didn’t like to do that stuff so I stopped after a while. In St. Louis they used to give us a case of beer in our lockers after every home game!
Do you watch the NFL today? What do you think of the way the game has changed?
I watch every Sunday – maybe two or three games. I root for Washington and Green Bay – those are the two teams that helped me most in my career and helped me to become a professional. When the first Super Bowl was played in 1963, I was amazed to see the entire starting offense for Green Bay still there.
But no. I don’t like the way the game has changed. When I played it was a game of football. Now. it’s a game of gladiators. They try to hurt each other. Back when I played, the guy that lined up across from you knew it was your salary you were playing for. They should take the facemasks off of the defensive backs now – that would stop the concussions. They wouldn’t use their heads to make a tackle and hurt people then. That’s just my opinion…
Any last thoughts for readers?
I owe it all to my high school coach at Bethlehem High School. I quit school in ninth grade. He made me come back. Everything since I was sixteen I owe to John Butler. He told me one time that if I ever needed to get up and make a speech, I should just tell people what I knew best – about myself. That would make for a good speech.
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