First, can you let readers know what you’ve been doing since your time in the NFL?

Well, it’s not really all that exciting, I started teaching high school and coaching wresting, along with some football, track & field, and even some golf – which I didn’t know a thing about! I knew enough not to screw them up I guess – they won a couple state championships.  I coached wrestling at Cedar Grove. We were the conference champions all three years and won the state championship my final year. Then I left Port washington and moved back to Coleman – I was waylaid on my way to Alaska. I coached the wrestling team there – where I used to wrestle.

You were an accomplished wrestler in high school – why did you end up playing football?

I won the state championship three times as a heavyweight – and came in second my sophomore year. In college I was asked to try out for football so I did and made the team. I ended up playing in the Rose Bowl with Wisconsin. My high school was very small so we did a lot of the different sports. At Wisconsin, I was also the fourth best shot-putter in the Big Ten. We had the top two, and if the the third person on the Wisconsin track & field team was allowed to compete, we’d have had the third and fourth!

How did your experience as a wrestler help you as a football player?

Well, you couldn’t hold and grab on the offensive line like you can now. It helped give me balance and, occasionally, the ability to trip a player when they got past me! There really wasn’t much difference between wrestling and playing on the offensive line.

Who were the coaches that really influenced your coaching style?

I was fortunate that my high school coach was a Big Ten champion. He was really good at teaching technique – he ran clinics for other coaches and at Coleman, we won ten state championships even thought we are one of the smallest schools in the state. The guy I used to coach is now the coach of the wrestling team. I tried to be positive – no yelling – I tried to lift up the poorer performing kids.

You played for Bill Austin in Pittsburgh – how was he to play for?

Austin was from the Lombardi camp. He was with the Rams as their offensive line coach when he got the job at Pittsburgh. He was the Lombardi type – win, win at any cost. That was my philosophy at the time – win at all costs. He was a cut-throat, hard-nosed coach – and that’s how I was. He wasn’t as bad as George Halas – he didn’t believe in cussing or putting kids down.

How did you end up in Pittsburgh – and were you happy you did?

I was traded. Somebody in Pittsburgh didn’t want to be there so we both got traded from L.A. It was an even switch of players. I liked then defensive line guys in L.A.  – some of the offensive line guys I didn’t like. And I didn’t like Hollywood – too many phonies. I was glad I was out of there.

The bad thing was that right before I got traded I went up against Doug Atkins in a game – he was an animal. He beat the tar out of me and put me in the hospital.  Then I was traded. So the next game, I had to go face Doug Atkins again!

What happened the first time?

He ran me over so I tripped him down. He grabbed me afterwards by my shoulder pads and told me “Never again rookie!”. I just said “Yes sir…” I couldn’t handle him. He was a machine. But I wasn’t the only one that couldn’t handle Doug Atkins!

How was your time in Pittsburgh?

I liked the players and the town. I missed some of the guys from L.A. – Deacon Jones, Merlin Olsen, Rosie Greer – they were really good guys. They were friendly – not as players but as people. In Pittsburgh, I enjoyed the people. But the NFL stands for not for long – and I just had too many injuries that were taking their toll on me. I’m still limping today…

Any funny stories you can share about your time in the NFL?

I didn’t get into any scrapes in Pittsburgh. I did get in a few in L.A. You get into disagreements and fights – then the coaches yell at you to get back and give each other space. Then they make you do running drills!

I remember in Pittsburgh, after a game, Bill Saul – the middle linebacker there then – he was a good wrestler too. We were bragging over who the best wrestler was, so I had to show him I could pout him down. I pinned him – he couldn’t believe it. He was a good guy.

I also remember going deer hunting with a bunch of guys from the Steelers. One guy – I forget who it was – he didn’t like to hunt so he just stayed in the cabin. Well, a buck walks right by the cabin so he picks up a gun from the porch and shoots it. Meanwhile, we’re out there freezing in the woods and don’t get anything!

What do you think of the way the game has changed today?

What bothers me today is how big and fast the players are. That leads to more injuries. I used to me a starting lineman at 240 pounds – I couldn’t even carry the water bucket nowadays.

And it’s so commercialized. There’s too much money. It’s not a game – it’s a business. I blame the fans for paying so much for tickets. The players should make a good living, but now they are all millionaires. There’s too much money – and some go broke after the game. They don’t know how to invest it.

When we played we got a respectable salary. Now there’s too much money flying around. And the media is on top of everything. If a player steps a bit out of bounds the cameras are right on top of them. I guess that’s the way society is now. At least the NFL is clamping down on the drugs with drug testing. They are keeping it all pretty straight. But the salaries – they are just way out of proportion. Again, you have to blame the fans for paying such a high price. The game’s gotten too big, It used to be a sport….

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