First, can you let us know how you got involved in coaching with the Steelers and what you are doing now?

Well, I’m retired now.  After coaching with the Steelers for eight years I went with Bud Carson to coach the Browns for two years. Before that, I worked part-time with Sid Gilman in San Diego and McCarthy in Baltimore.

How did you get started in Pittsburgh?

My friend George Perles was at Michigan State – his assistant there was Henry Bowa. I was helping with the conditioning program there when Henry got a job with the Baltimore Colts. He talked to the coach there and I ended up going up there and spent a month on their conditioning program. They happened to win the Super Bowl that year. So I got calls from every team and every sport!  I went from week to week helping different teams. I worked in Pittsburgh part-time – the other teams I worked with on their Summer programs. In Pittsburgh I was so-called part-time, but it was really full-time. I never missed a practice or a game.

My job in Pittsburgh was to be the conditioning and special teams coach. I did most of the special teams – Chuck handled the quarterbacks – he didn’t have time to spend on special teams. So he put me in charge of probably 75% of the special teams. That way he could just put the blame on me!

Did the players at first resist your newer conditioning programs and techniques? Lou Riecke said he had to win some of the players over with the newer weight training programs.

I had no problems with any of the players. Lou Riecke had the weights, and I had the other stuff. I did most of the stuff during the offseason before camp. Most of the time – my philosophy – was that nobody ever invented a program for the masses that was good for the individual. If it’s not individualized it’s not a great program. What’s good for Lynn Swann wasn’t going to be good for Joe Greene.

So, I had no problem selling it to the guys. They were all thrilled to have their speed, mobility, and flexibility improved.

How did you incorporate your extensive gymnastics coaching background into your training?

That’s a good question. I had ten-to-fifteen guys on special teams – I didn’t have to sell them. Lots of the stuff I did was gymnastics oriented. I coached gymnastics for 15-20 years before and won three or four state championships. So, I did a lot of gymnastics work. I brought in a side horse and spring board in Pittsburgh and had them work on those. We had no space for a trampoline – I wanted to bring one in but there was no room there at Three Rivers for one. Chuck was all for all of it. I felt that I could have taught them more on the trampoline than anything – if you could control your body on a trampoline, that would be the ultimate.

A lot of people would come to my clinics and speaking engagements to learn about that stuff. I wrote two books on conditioning and flexibility and people would buy them left and right.

Any funny stories from your time in Pittsburgh?

I remember coming off the field with Terry Bradshaw. Chuck was in the training room with Lou Riecke and we walked by them. Chuck yelled to Terry that he should “Go in and pump some iron!” Terry just told him that “The ball only weighs a couple of ounces!” He just walked on by!

Terry never lifted. He didn’t think it as necessary. You can’t question somebody that has accomplished so much.

I worked with Rocky Bleier a lot. No one thought he’d walk. I spent a lot of time with him. Afterwards he ran a 4.6 40. Not too bad for a guy supposed to be a cripple. And he didn’t have the physical makeup of a great receiver or running back.

What do you think of the way teams are working with players today? What’s changed the most?

I don’t know what the scouts did then when they worked out players. We had a great scouting department. Art Jr., Bill Nunn, Dick Haley… A really, really good department. At no time did anyone question how much a guy bench pressed or what their speed was. It was all recorded and given to the coaches, but not one was rejected due to their lack of speed in the 40 or because they didn’t bench 600 pounds or any of that garbage.

Its now to the point that they test everything – the 40, long distance, broad jump, high jump…all that stuff. I don’t know whether they are that much better physically now. I see a lot of those older guys at golf tournaments and events. If it’s one thing we still do, it’s golf! I remember Andy Russell had a good point. He was asked a couple of years ago what he thought of the players now. Andy is old school – he never went through any of that stuff. He had the best answer. He said to if you gave him a month and a half to get his 40 yard dash down and lift weights, and he could play again. I never saw him in the weight room, or saw him timed in the 40.

One guy came in back then and talked Chuck into seeing how guys ran. He had them run laps after practice- four laps. Greene just asked “When do you think that I as a defensive tackle will ever have to run 400 yards?” He never even ran the quarter mile. He’d walk half the way. Who was going to tell Joe Greene to run at a certain speed?

So you’re not sold on the new approaches?

I know one thing. We all walked then from the hotel where we stayed, to the locker room, then to the field. Now, they don’t walk anywhere. They use golf carts to take them from the locker room and dorms to the field and back! That’s the biggest change. Some guys from back then that I talk to – I won’t mention their names – just say these guys now have it made. Could you imagine? The money they make and how they’re taken care of….

These guys couldn’t take a Chuck Noll or Sid Gilman today. It’s a different culture – different people. You look at them and it looks like they are getting ready for track and field anymore. Even Troy Polamalu. You know he never lifted weights in Pittsburgh? He never ran sprints. He had his own training program. And who would question him?

Any last thoughts for readers?

When I was in San Diego I roomed with Bum Phillips and became good friends with him then. Well, I’m not sure if you remember the game we played versus Houston years later- the field was all ice. He was their coach – we both walked on the field before the game and shook hands. He was a great guy. He asked me why we weren’t all on the field stretching together like his team was – like we did when when we were in San Diego. He said that he knew we iced the field but he thought we were up to something else too! I told him that it was all personalized. – the guys all have their own program. And that’s how it was. We specialized our programs even more so for guys like Terry Bradshaw and Lynn Swann.

I have nothing but good things to say about those guys. It was a pleasure to work with all of them.

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