First, can you tell me what you are doing now and what prompted you to start the USU Families in Sport Lab?
After a couple of years in the NFL and overseas in NFL Europe, I went back to Purdue to get my Masters. I stayed and then got my PhD in Sports Psychology.
I was interested in studying the connection between better family life and sports – that’s when I founded the USU Families in Sport Lab . There we study the intersection between how sports influence family life and the reciprocal intersection of how family life influences sports.
As a person who experienced your sport at every level, does that give you a unique perspective on the issue? What about that NFL and pre-NFL playing experience informed your approach to your work?
You hit the nail on the head. I have the frame of reference of a person who played the sport at four, 16 and 25 years old. Not that I am unique in that – but that along with my academic training gives me a unique lens on this.
Family changes. When you’re a kid family is your parents and siblings. As you get older it’s your coaches, mentors, friends – it changes. That’s something I’ve learned.
And you still remain active and compete in triathlons…
I do triathlons – that’s my new competitive outlet. My wife was a competitive runner in college and got me into this sports endurance stuff! It keeps my competitive fires lit and helps me to stay healthy.
I also have a five and eight year old son and they are keeping us active as well. They do skiing and other traditional sports that you see American kids do.
Why do you think parent involvement has escalated and gotten more intense over the years – how much has social media impacted that?
It’s huge with social media. Parents are reacting to what is now a very professionalized environment for kids’ sports. Our generation, we had less expectations to get those elite opportunities for scholarships and to get to the pro sports level. Now, so many parents have that as a goal for their kids. There are cottage industries for specialists – coaches, gurus, kids sports psychologists…. But the middle and upper class families are the ones that can afford them and that gives those kids added advantages and leaves others behind.
You’re seeing a higher sports dropout rate for kids now than in years past. Kids are dropping out at 10 and 12. Some can’t afford those advantages and some just found no place for themselves there. Not everyone wants to make it a career – some just want to have fun, but there’s no place for that in many areas now.
What has research shown about how have-not kids are being affected by this and how it carries on through their lives?
Kids are resilient – they find other things to do. A lot of kids are in esports now – they have autonomy and control over things – no one is breathing down their backs – and don’t require investing in things like a coach.
As parents, we need to think critically about what affects our kids. How we can add a lens for the kids who just want to come in and have fun. We say we value sports for our kids to help develop them but it ends up being about winning.
What do you say to folks who say this is like the argument against participation trophies – that it’s supposed to be about winning and trying to be the best?
Absolutely – they aren’t mutually exclusive ideas. It starts with defining enjoyment. My four year-old may play soccer and enjoy picking flowers more while he plays. My 12 year-old is there more for skill development and wants to be competitive but still have fun. As you get older, 18 and 25 year olds, they are of course more competitive.
You have to understand where they are in their development and what they want when discussing the the amount of importance you place on that stuff.
As an example – travel baseball shouldn’t be the only option for kids who want to play the sport. There should be something for kids who aren’t willing or able to do travel baseball. When you think of things holistically, a lot of what we’re talking about in terms of competitive sports is aimed at two-percent of kids – the top of the pyramid. What about the rest of those kids? At some point it becomes a public health conversation too.
How do you fix that?
I wish I had the big answer of that! I think the general answer is to focus on the individual. Give kids some ownership of their experience – ask them what they want. I get that we need adults and coaches in youth sports. But how we engage with the kids is important. We need to ask them what they want out of the experience more – we’re losing kids who are dropping out of sports at a higher rate than ever.
You speak of the commoditization of kids in today’s sports. Can you describe what you mean by that?
Sports are more expensive now. Gone are the days of the $15 rec league. Now these leagues cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Not including all that extra coaching. Now parents look at that and want an ROI on that investment. They want to see a return on that money. They want their kids starting in high school and getting scholarships to college. They don’t want to feel like you do when you give your investment guy $10,000 and he turns it into $5.
Now, parents are treating youth sports like an investment too. When you go to Disney World you don’t think of that as an investment. You don’t expect to make more – you just want a good experience and good memories. Youth sports used to be that way but now parents are expecting value from them.
Does this and how does it affect athletes as they enter college and the NFL? Especially when, as they get older, they are often taught that thinking about other things negatively affects their ability to succeed professionally.
One thing that’s important is that athletes don’t foreclose on any aspect of their identity as they go through their journey. You see guys like Myron Rolle who after the NFL went on to get his medical degree and become a doctor. Many other athletes have pursued businesses and other careers.
You can’t just think of yourself as an athlete. It’s easy to focus on a spot and nothing else, but I think a well-rounded athlete is a better athlete. Your careers are not long in sports – you hopefully have 50-to-60 years left after that to do something with.
If I could say one thing to rookies in the NFL Rookie Symposium, it would be to keep all aspects of their identity open that you value. Don’t foreclose on any aspect of your identity. The end of your career often comes faster than you realize.