First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?
Well I stayed in Pittsburgh and ended up working in the penitentiary after I was cut again and couldn’t make a team. At first I worked in construction and did a lot of projects – like the Greentree Mall. But the Winters were pretty lean – in January and February especially they’d lay me off as I was still one of the younger guys there.
A friend of mine told me I should work at the penitentiary so I applied there and ended up working there for 21 years. When it closed down I retired. My wife worked at Allegheny General and we didn’t want to move and I didn’t want to drive to the other penitentiaries they offered me jobs to work at as they were too far away. We had two boys and my work made it easy for me to be around them and be there for my kids. I even coached football at North Catholic for a couple of years.
That was a big thing for you?
My dad was a truck driver and I didn’t see him very much. My kids both played hockey and one played football. I enjoyed those years. Hockey parents are all crazy. The kids started playing when the Pens won their first Cup. There weren’t many rinks then – we had to get up at five am to get rink time and practice on the South Side on 21st Street. It was crazy – I would take them to practice then go to sleep! I can look back now and know I raised my kids. And not just mine. There were so many others kids that stayed at our house nights before practices so we’d take them all of the time…
How hard was that post-NFL adjustment for you?
At first it was real tough. I had a bad knee, and things were different back then. They didn’t have the types of surgeries they have now. I just tore some cartilage. I made the team the year before mostly because of my speed and I never got that speed back after the injury. I’m finally getting knee replacement surgery soon. I hung in there and got my NFL retirement but never was the same after that first year.
Now, things are different. In college I played next to another good running back and the only difference between us was speed. If I broke the line of scrimmage there was a good chance I would score. But we had Franco and Rocky in Pittsburgh and both played then. They didn’t have one back sets much then. I didn’t get much of an opportunity in Pittsburgh so that fourth year after I was cut I played in Chicago and started a couple of games. But I hurt my knee there and my knee swelled up and I had to have it drained, so they cut me. I signed back with Pittsburgh but twisted my ankle. I got a tub of ice at home and soaked it in ice then heat then ice again. That’s what they did then. I went in Sunday for the game but when I got there Chuck Noll told me they were releasing me. I had bought tickets for my parents for the game, too. They decided not to go when they found out I was cut. They were pretty upset.
What did Chuck tell you?
He said they were releasing me – that they brought someone else in and that they thought I would catch on with another team right away. Basically, I was released because I was injured but they weren’t allowed to say that. I went to Kansas City and they wanted to sign me – they were going to do it when they came back after the x-ray and said they weren’t going to do it after all after seeing the x-ray. They same thing happened in New York. I was talking to George Young who was excited about signing me but after they saw the x-ray they told me they couldn’t do it right now.
So, I couldn’t sign with anyone. I went back home to Pittsburgh, and about two-to-three games before the playoffs the Steelers were looking to re-sign me again but back then you had to play at least one game with another team before they could re-sign you. So I lost the chance for another Super Bowl ring and Super Bowl money. I would never sue, but I lost a lot. I never knew what everyone saw on the x-rays, but I was out of football after that.
Stepping back, you were drafted out of a very small college – Salem. Were you surprised to be drafted by Pittsburgh? How did they discover you?
I was surprised they drafted me. Salem didn’t have a track or indoor facility for me to run the 40. Coach Blackstone took me to West Virginia University to run on their astroturf. I ran a 4.6 or 4.7 at Salem on their muddy field, but at WVU I ran a 4.5. It was a very small school. One game we lost power at halftime so we could only play on one side of the field. I handled kickoff and punt returns and had to do those in the dark – on the side where the lights went out. That was a wild one. We actually went to NAIA national championship one year but lost…
Did anyone help mentor you once you got to Pittsburgh?
That didn’t happen then. You heard what you heard from others. There were a lot of guys who had bad injuries. Again, the surgeries weren’t like what they are now. Guys now too, they’re bigger and stronger but look also at what they have – nutritionists, personal trainers, guys who tell you when to work out… Do you know what I did to rehab my knee? I worked out with Ralph Berlin who wasn’t even a trainer. I had a house on a hill in Pittsburgh I bought so I could run uphill. I strapped 10 pound weights on both legs and wore a 40 pound vest and ran up and down the hill. The kids I coached used to call me Coach Calves because my calves were so big!
I wish things could have ended differently for me. I blame myself for some of it. I could have worked harder….but what the guys have today to help them, its unbelievable.
I remember when I left Pittsburgh and went to Chicago…the way Pittsburgh trapped with their smaller, quicker linemen, sometimes the guys they blocked never saw them coming. I always felt bad for Walter Payton in Chicago because he never had that. He had so much talent but his offensive linemen seemed so much slower and heavier. I remember telling that to a journalist once back then and said they seemed lazy. I hope I never run into one of the linemen!
Any fun/stand-out stories of your time there you remember?
I wasn’t really into extracurricular activities. I remember when the rookies would go up to camp two week before the vets would get there, then they had a scrimmage and we’d all run two miles. The coaches would take the fastest guys and have them run against each other to see who was the fastest. Ernie Pough was one of those guys – he was a world class sprinter. This was after they won their second Super Bowl and here I was, this guy out of little Salem College. The only guy that bet on me was Ernie Holmes, and believe it or not, I won! After that the coaches and media I think took more interest in me. It was pretty comical.
Me and Cliff Stoudt were on the practice squad and they clocked us pretty good after a loss. We had full scrimmages on Wednesdays and Thursdays even, and Perles would get on the defensive guys after a loss in practice, so they’d clobber us. I got clotheslined more than once. Lambert freaked out on me once in practice when I stopped once – I didn’t want to hit him during practice – this was right before the Super Bowl. I turned my back and started walking away and he started punching me in the back of the head. I asked him what the heck that was about and he yelled at me that we never stop!
Blount hit me really late too after I made a move on him in practice and stopped. When Jim O’Brien asked him later why he did it he said the same thing – you never stop!
I also remember when I was a rookie my parents came out to camp to watch me. The rookies went against the vets and on offense we ran a trap play. The guard forgot to pull and I saw Holmes sitting in the hole with a big smile on his face. I did a shake and bake and he never touched me. It was the last play of the scrimmage so I started taking off my helmet and walked by him, and he clocked me – hit me right in the face. Someone said he thought I had a smirk on my face. I don’t know. But it started a big fight where I continued to get my ass kicked.
Well, later on that night I’m in the back seat of my parent’s car going out for dinner, and I told my father I think I could make the team. He angled the driver’s mirror so he could see me in the back seat so I could see myself, and said, “Do you see yourself?” Well, Ernie punched me right in the nose – I had two black eyes. I just told him I think I had it made – that my black eyes don’t hurt nothing!
Any last thoughts for readers?
I don’t regret anything. I got popular with fans – every year I was the sleeper they talked about when they asked who the next sleeper like Deloplaine would be. There was tons of talent on those Steelers teams and a lot came from small Black colleges. Nunn scouted those there.
Bennie Cunningham was a friend of mine who just passed away recently. He was a really good guy and lived close to me here near Clemson. He used to come to my camps and events here. He called me some time ago and told me things didn’t look good…to pray for him. That was hard… we’re seeing a lot of those guys getting sick and passing away.
I remember when Cliff Stoudt spoke at event where me, Blount, Franco, Stallworth and other Steeler Hall of Famers were at. They all spoke and told their stories, then he got up, pointed to the guys and said “Hall of Fame, Hall of Fame, Hall of Fame, Hall of Fame, Hall of Fame, me and Jack..” That was great.
Franco…I don’t say this to demean him, but he wasn’t one of the fastest 40 guys. But all those fast teams we played in Dallas, the Raiders…. he ran away from them all. He was a gamer. He never ran below a 4.6 or 4.7.
And Walter Payton – he was the best I’ve ever seen. He never quit – fought for every yard. Guys today don’t play like that and last as long as he did.
I consider myself lucky over my career to have played with all of those talented players. It was a great experience. I was drafted by a Super Bowl team in Pittsburgh and wondered how the hell I’d make that team. But I did.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
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