First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing since your time in the NFL and how the post-NFL adjustment went for you?
Well, I’m retired now. I worked at the Port of Houston after I played football. It wasn’t too much of an adjustment. I knew it was coming – the transition was good.
Were you surprised to get drafted in 1971 and by the Steelers? How did you learn you were drafted?
I was surprised to get drafted at all – I was not expecting to get drafted by anyone really. I never believed I would be in that group to be drafted.
In school, I heard I got drafted – I think I got a letter from the Steelers saying they drafted me. Camp started a month later so I went up then – it was mini-camp – it lasted about three days. That’s when I went to Pittsburgh and got to know the other drafted guys and coaches.
Did anyone there help take you under their wing at all and show you how to be a pro?
Not really. Basically, you were on your own. They prepared you for training camp. You needed to learn the playbook and get a head start on that so when camp started you had a good idea what you were doing. It was to help you with the basic fundamentals of what was going on at camp.
Nobody specifically sat you down. You were there with the rest of the guys. The other defensive linemen there were young too. I didn’t know any of the guys then.
It was a loaded defensive line – was it frustrating trying to get reps and playing time then?
It wasn’t frustrating because the other guys were young too. They did what they could to help but they left the coaching to the coaches. When I got there they had me play mostly on short yardage situations and at defensive end. My situation was that I didn’t weigh a lot then when I got there. I depended more on speed – I was faster than most of the other guys, but I only weighed about 215 pounds.
Besides that, the biggest adjustment was the weather . I never experienced cold weather like that before. So I tried to prepare myself for that.
Who were some of the guys you faced in practice and on other teams that you remember most, and why?
Jon Kolb and Sam Davis – they showed you what you could do better in one-on-ones in practice. They made you better – you learned from them. They knew how to play the game – they were professionals. You learned what to do better going up against them.
At the time, everyone I faced really impressed me. I came from a small school and had a lot to learn compared to all the guys that played at major colleges. They had coaches who played at the pro level and could tell those guys what to expect.
How did the coaches and players help you once camp and the season really kicked in?
The coaches let you know what to expect. Andy Russell – he was a quiet guy but he would help you if he saw you do something wrong.
The depth chart then – I was actually behind Andy Russell. They didn’t know what to do with me I think at first. I only weighed 215 pounds – I had speed but I wasn’t a big guy. I think that’s the reason when I went to New Orleans I was moved to tight end.
Why do you think they drafted you when they didn’t really know how to use you?
It was Art Rooney Jr.’s decision to draft me. He scouted me and saw me play. He got some picks at the end of the draft if the team got the guys they wanted most, and it was his decision to choose me. He told me he saw me play at Grambling and liked my speed and wanted to draft me then if the opportunity came up. My speed got me an extra look.
Who were some of the characters on those Steelers teams?
Greene was a real character. He just wanted to be a great player. He and Greenwood – they weren’t big guys. Joe was just a quiet guy and one of the nicest guys you could meet, unless you played against him!
Dwight White was a joker to a degree. But there weren’t as many characters then – guys were serious about what they were doing. That team then – everybody was young. Bradshaw was in my draft – he was the first guy drafted and I was the last.
What happened after that ’71 season?
I was released in ’72 – Noll told me then what I needed to do to make it on another team – what I could have done better in Pittsburgh. He helped guys prepare if they wanted to sign on other teams.
What did he tell you?
He told me I needed to take things more seriously. I guess I agreed. I had never been in that situation before. You kind of think you’re doing good but the mistakes you make are the ones you make because you didn’t properly prepare yourself like you should have.
My experience in Pittsburgh was very good. I never played so far from Houston before and in cold weather. When we played the Packers I made the statement that I’d never go back to Green Bay again. Well, one day I woke up and found myself playing for the Green Bay Packers – in 1975. That’s when I played for Houston and was released, and the wide receivers coach from Houston went to Green Bay and brought me in. That’s the last place I ever thought I’d be! I remember them telling me to park my car close to the building, facing it to help keep it warm enough so the transmission wouldn’t freeze.
I remember in Pittsburgh – my first snow and ice storm. The newer guys – we asked when they were going to let us know practice was canceled. The veterans just laughed. When the coaches came in to tell us to get our pads on and get on the field in 10 minutes, we thought they were joking at first!
What do you think about the way the NFL has changed today?
I think the changes that were made were good, but guys back then I think were tougher. We had tougher practices – I’m not sure guys today could deal with those practices. There were less rules around practices then.
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