First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your time in the NFL?
Well, I retired in April of 2019. My goal was always to retire at 59 1/2. My wife and I were doing a lot of traveling before Covid so we’re hoping to be able to pick that up again.
I was the GM of a Nissan dealership for 25 years before I retired here in Houston. Before that I was in the banking industry for five years or so.
I’ve become an avid mountaineer, strangely being from flat Texas. I started climbing Mount Rainier in Washington state. I made the summit twice and started on a quest to climb the tallest peak on every continent. I’ve now climbed four of the seven highest peaks – Kilimanjaro Africa, Aconcagua South America, Mt Elbrus Europe, and Mount Kosciuszko Australia. Three more to go!
Was the post-football transition difficult?
When I left the Steelers, I played for the Chiefs then the Colts. My third year I dislocated my toe – if you remember that is the same injury that ended Jack Lambert’s career. I sat out most of ’85 and tried to come back and play in ’86. I just caused more damage to the toe doing so. As an offensive lineman, if you can’t push off with your foot you can’t perform.
So, it caught me off guard for sure. I was never injured before that – not even in high school. That first year was a little tough, but I had a plan to work in the banking industry and had the opportunity to start with that.
I also started running a lot. And Indianapolis has the Velodrome for cyclists. I took up cycling and started riding with Olympic trainers. Of course they left me in the dust – they’d ride for 50 miles and there was no way I was keeping up with them!
My goal was to try and get my weight down. I will say, I have a lot of friends who have had more difficult times. The downtime is difficult – you miss that comradery. I think that’s the biggest transition – not being in that team atmosphere.
You were drafted by the Steelers in ’83 – did you know they had interest in you?
The Spring of that year Steelers scouts came to a couple of workouts in Waco and we talked for a while. And the combine too. I felt there was interest but I wasn’t even sure if I was going to be drafted.
Dick Haley is the one who called me when they drafted me – I think Chuck Noll and other coaches were on the line as well. When they called I was so excited not only to be drafted, but by such a storied franchise like Pittsburgh.
Did anyone take you under their wing and help you out the most?
Jon Kolb was coaching the defensive line at the time, which I thought was strange. But he took me under his wing – invited me to dinner at his house a few times and was a big influence on me.
I played offensive guard only since high school. But when I got to mini-camp Noll and Ron Blackledge told me they wanted to move me to tackle. I was willing to do anything really. So Jon helped me as an ex-tackle – we were kind of kindred spirits.
What did he help you most with?
We talked a lot about the mental preparation. Camp was a grind then – not like today. We talked about staying mentally tough. The gassers and tough practices were rough – I played on other teams and the Steelers by far had the most brutal camp. Jon helped me to stay focused and mentally tough, and to stay physically ready. To not let my body deteriorate – to keep lifting and working out.
Tunch Ilkin was also a strong mentor too. All the guys were helpful – but he and Ted Peterson were helpful was well – both were tackles and were willing to help. After a bad practice Tunch would talk to you and tell you to stay focused. There really was great comradery on the team.
Any fun memories stand out most to you of your time there?
All of the offensive linemen got to games early – earlier than any of the other guys. I think the Steelers were the first team to have their linemen tape their jerseys to their shoulder pads. They’d put the jerseys over the pads first before you put the pads on to keep it all together. Well, that can be a tight fit – it was difficult getting the pads and jersey on.
The first time I was in the middle of the locker room and I had the pads halfway on – but I couldn’t move, I was stuck. Everyone was watching me until finally Rick Donnalley and Emil Boures helped me out!
I also remember walking into Three Rivers for the first time – I couldn’t believe I was standing there. It was an amazing experience. I know some people say here in Texas that Texas is the heartbeat of football, but I think that part of Pennsylvania – Western Pa. – that’s the real heartbeat. I’ve played and been in just about every NFL stadium, and the Steelers fans are unbelievable.
How hard was it in ’83 when you were released – what happened?
When I look back I have to say I just wasn’t a great offensive tackle. I went back to offensive guard in Kansas City I played a lot – against some great players like Randy White and played well. I just wish I had pushed back a little in camp on playing guard. Noll just really believed I could play tackle.
Blackledge and I talked for a while when they released me. He told me he felt I’d get another opportunity with another team. Sure enough I cleared waivers and was picked up by Kansas City the next day.
As an offensive lineman, do you like the way the NFL has changed over the years?
You can’t criticize the success of the NFL over the past 30 years or so! It’s a fantastic game. The new rules protecting players in practices and during games were overdue. I know Pittsburgh of course had its own history of head injuries over the last 30-to-40 years.
The daily grind of practices and games took its toll – especially in Pittsburgh with those tough practices. I know it was about trying to prepare us for games – they weren’t trying to hurt us. They just wanted tough practices to help us be great.
But I love the wide open game now. I’m kind of an aerial guy. When I was playing at Baylor we threw the ball a lot. If we won 60-58, we’d wonder why we didn’t score more points! So I love the wide open offenses now.
I also like that NFL coaches are letting quarterbacks now play like they did in college. Now guys like Jackson and Watson – they aren’t being pigeon-holed into systems. They are letting the players’ skill levels come out instead of forcing them into a specific kind of offense.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
