First, can you update us a bit on what you’ve been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?
Well, I’m doing several things. I’m consulting – helping companies with new business development – law firms, structured settlements – I help those businesses. I also have a spice business I’ve been running for six-to-seven years now. These were spices developed by my dad who had a restaurant in California – he was one of the best chefs and butchers I ever met in my life.
That’s all kept me busy.
I wanted to jump right into the Steelers-Oilers rivalry by asking if the rivalry was more of a fan thing, from your perspective, or was it a real rivalry for the players too?
I think the reality is that when fans support their teams, every other team is a foe of your team. That migrated down to the players. As it was, the AFC Central was one of the toughest divisions in football with us, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Cincinnati.
The Steelers were always dominant starting in ’72. You had to go through Pittsburgh to win a championship – that was instilled in me when I got there. We didn’t have the talent Pittsburgh had, man for man, but we had the heart to make up for it, if not more.
I remember in ’75 when Bum came in – we were playing and Bradshaw and Kruczek both went down in the game, and they had to being in Tony Dungy to play quarterback. I went down too, and Hadl, my backup, went down with an injury, so we had our third-string guy in as well. We won that game and the next day the injury report had 23 players from both teams on it!
Dungy had a pick that game too – I think he was the only modern player to throw and make an interception in the same game.
That was a different time right?
Yeah. That’s when teams like the Raiders, Steelers and us – we’d take your head off without thinking about it if we could. You really did have to keep your head on a swivel.
But the Steelers and Oilers always had respect for each other. In ’79, we could have beaten them in the playoffs if it wasn’t for that bad call. I”m not saying that decided the game – who knows. But it would have given us momentum and stopped us from having to play catch-up. It would have been tied going into the fourth quarter in the Dome and I would have liked our chances. Instead we had to play catch-up. I had an injured groin from a game two weeks before and couldn’t move a lot. I told the offensive line to keep the defense off of me, and they did for the most part. But when we had to play catch-up in the fourth quarter and they could pin their ears back and rush the passer, that’s when it’s not a fun time.
How did Bum prepare you for those Steelers teams?
He didn’t have to fire us up. He just told us you don’t get to the Super Bowl without beating Pittsburgh. Every time Pittsburgh beat us in the playoffs they went to the Super Bowl. And you’ll see after every game me walking off the field with Joe and Dwight on either side of me. We had a lot of respect for each other. I’m still close with Joe – we see each other at charity golf events every year.
Any good stories of you and that Steelers defense?
Oh one time during a Monday Night Football game, we were beating them with 10 seconds left and we were on their one-yard line. I called a time out – I was thinking we may need the points for a tiebreaker later on in the year. I would much rather have played them at home in the Dome than in Pittsburgh in the Winter, so I was thinking the points may help for tie-breaker. I talked to Bum and he told me he liked the way I was thinking but the points wouldn’t matter.
I walked back to the line and Greene was lined up over Mauck and pointing at me and yelling – words you don’t hear in church, let’s put it that way, He told me “If you try to score a touchdown I’ll kill you on national TV, you SOB!” I told him to settle down, I wasn’t going to try and score. I fell back and he walked up to me, pointed at me and told me he knew I wouldn’t try it!
It was a scary moment! Cosell and Gifford were all over me on national TV – they didn’t know what I was thinking though – why I called timeout.
What made you have the success you managed to have against the Steelers?
Just wanting to beat them. That’s what you live for. I didn’t shy away from the opportunity. I never understood the guys that get nervous and choke. That’s what you are there for – that’s what you play for. To go out and just do your best in those moments – that’s why you put yourself in that position.
That’s why I hate the celebrations now too when guys score. I told guys then to act like they expected to be there. Heck Earl would just flip the ball to the ref and that was it.
I wanted to get more into how Bum prepared you to play versus the Steelers in terms of strategy. What did he do that worked?
He just made sure we didn’t make stupid mistakes. And to not get too emotional – that’s when you screw up. I was the cooling breeze on the team. I kept an even keel for the offense. There were mixed emotions on that team – all kinds of guys from the real gems to the grimiest of people. But we all came together.
He also preached about not turning the ball over a lot. And if you did so, take your chances on the other side of the field. So at least it’s like a punt.
Anything specific strategy-wise you remember that worked?
Greene used to line up in the one-gap between the center and guard. He kept people off of Lambert who was a good open-field tackler. So for one game we had a remedy for that. That was the only time Earl ran for over 100 yards against them I think.
We had Tim Wilson come in and line up next to me in the three-point stance. We’d double-team Greene and have Wilson hit the other gap and block Lambert – get into his chest. By the end of the game you could see Lambert with his hands on his hips – he was tired.
We tried that again the second time we played them, but of course they had a stunt that fixed that. You don’t fool them twice!
Who were the guys that got most fired up from the rivalry?
Mauck and Barber – you needed to give them some Valium. Carl Mauck was just so intense – he was the leader of the offensive line and was so intense – he’d be that way if he was playing racquetball.
Wilson kind of did what he was told. And of course you had Bethea, Culp, Brazile – those guys on defense. We’d have had more Hall of Famers if we won a Super Bowl I think.
What do you think about the game today?
I don’t like it and don’t watch it. I don’t respect the kneeling down. I’m a patriot first, and I don’t like when politics mix with business. It’s ruining it for the fans who just want to see good football.
I also don’t like the way the pre-’93 players have not been respected by the NFL. We haven’t been grandfathered in to the last CBA. The current players don’t respect the fact we sacrificed our salaries and free agency freedom so they can have movement in free agency and larger salaries.
Our pension gives us about $30,000to to $40,000 a year – no medical. You look at baseball players – they get $200,000. Basketball players get $225,000. We don’t get anything close to that.
It’s sad. A shame. I wish they supported us and respected us more. But it’s up to the player’s association – up to the players. I hope they do better for us in the next CBA.
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