First – I know you got into coaching – tell me how you got started?
Coaching was always my dream since high school – that was my goal, to come back and coach at my alma mater. I ended up doing that 25 years later.
In college I learned that in order to coach in Illinois you had to be a certified teacher. Teaching was never my goal – it wasn’t what I wanted to do. I was hoping to go into the FBI or something like that. But I fell in love with sports and coaching in college and they told me I needed the degree in physical education to coach.
Anyone help shape the way you coached – any mentors for how you approached coaching?
There were a couple of things – the first is strange I know, but whatever. I used to love Tom Landry and that era of coaches – and I loved how they wore the hats and suits and ties. So I did the same thing – whether it was 105 or 35 degrees, I’d wear a suit and tie. People would ask me why I didn’t wear the sweats or hoodies and I’d tell them that’s how I thought coaches should be.
On the x’s and o’s – Noll taught me those and the passion for the game. I was floored by what he did — in high school and college the head coaches weren’t really hands on, but Noll coached everything – he was hands on in everything. I loved that.
Reeves, Mora – they weren’t as hands on either. I played for quite a few legendary coaches, but Noll was the only one that was that hands on in everything.
Any other guys you liked?
Tom Moore – I loved him. And Fox. They were both so relatable – they were magnetic – the way they interacted with people.
And an interesting story was with Urban Meyer. At Illinois State my head coach left after my senior year – Haycock. As I was leaving Meyer was coming in. Neither one of us knew each other – I never heard of him and he was just coming in. But he took the time to seek me out and sit down with me – talked to me about my work leading up to the draft and about the transition to the NFL. That quest to give everyone help – even if you didn’t know them well – that was impressive. And 12 years later there he was winning a championship!
I think that’s the funny thing about some coaches – there’s something about the great ones – they have those special characteristics.
Even my high school coach – he coached over 40 years at the school and never missed a day. That work ethic and way he motivated people helped me to become the coach I became. And I was successful – I didn’t achieve all of the goals I hoped to, but we put lots of kids in college and five in the NFL. That’s not bad for what was the murder capital of the United States.
So tell me, what took you to Pittsburgh after originally signing with Denver as a free agent out of college?
I signed with Denver first, then Pittsburgh, then back with Denver in Plan B free agency again. Then I went to NFL Europe for two years before going to the Colts. I made the Colts roster but then Jeff George ended his holdout two days before the season and I was the casualty after he signed.
In Pittsburgh, Dwain Painter sold me on signing there. He said I could be the next Bill Brooks. He just psyched me up and got me excited about signing. They also tripled the offer of other teams. I saw my opportunity there too – but then they drafted Derek Hill and that dampened the opportunity.
How was the city when you got there?
I just remember coming out of the tunnels and seeing the city explode in front of me – pow! It’s all dark and then pow! I was just mesmerized when I saw that. I had never been there before – it floored me.
Plan B was crazy then. We were courted and romanced by coaches and flown everywhere, We got steak dinners in every city – it was like being recruited – it gave you a good feeling for the city and team.
It was a great experience being there – I had great experiences in the big cities. Denver – they all loved the Broncos there. The same in Pittsburgh. I saw firsthand how the rich got richer. I made $200,000 and didn’t have to pay for anything. Everything was free – we’d go out for expensive dinners and never had to pay for them because of who we were!
You were a running back at first in college – why the change to receiver?
I was a running back for most of college through my junior year – I ran a 4.38 40, but I weighed just 170 pounds.
My senior year was the year the USFL came out, and they were drafting underclassmen – they could take younger guys, unlike the NFL. So everybody ran for them. I ran a 4.33 when the Generals came in. Word got out and the Giants and Cowboys scouted me, and the Giants talked to my coaches. They told them they should consider moving me to wide receiver to give me a chance to make it in the NFL – I’d never make it as a 170 pound running back. So my coaches sat me down and told me the plan – they walked through it with me to help my draft stock.
They moved me to receiver gradually just to help my draft stock. It wasn’t about winning for them. It was what was best for me. I caught more passes as a running back then as a receiver – we ran a lot of jet sweeps and that sort of thing. A lot of coaches wouldn’t have cared tough about me as an individual – I was fortunate enough to play for coaches that looked out for me.
Anyone help mentor you as a young guy with the Steelers?
It’s a funny story – Rod Woodson was a year ahead of me – he was a track star as you know but I was on the track circuit as well and knew him from there. He was an Indiana guy like me.
His freshman year I had a friend that dated Rod – when I went to see her I met him. I was in awe of him – he was well-known. But we became friendly – we were like cousins.
So when he heard I signed with the Steelers he was the first guy that called me. I stayed with him for five months. He’d go to the defensive back meetings and tell me what they saw – how I needed to be better getting off the line – what I needed to do better. He helped me financially, personally – just getting to know the city.
What was the first season like for you?
I told all of my friends – they were all excited for me – but I told them that Mondays through Fridays were my game days! I enjoyed practicing more than games because I only played on special teams – punt returns – so I’d return three or four punts a game. It was fun though – it was amazing wearing the black and gold.
Any memories stand out to you there?
Lloyd – he’d get kicked out of practices. I’d go in motion as a receiver in practice and block the end guy – Lloyd – and he’s just run me over. I was like, what is your problem? We were in shorts! That guy was relentless.
It also freaked me out seeing guys smoke in the locker room and showers at halftime of games. I was never exposed to anything like that in college and high school. These guys – the leaders – they were just regular guys.
What happened when you decided to retire?
The day I was released from the Colts it was mid-September. I was in my car driving home and I drove right past my house straight to Chicago State University. I had cash in my pocket and paid for classes and enrolled right there. I promised myself I’d get my degree before I was 30 years old. I took 32 hours of classes and got my degree.
Back then less than 20% of the college guys I played with got their degrees. It was a gravy train – it was all about football. It was tragic really when you look back on it. The ethics were poor.
Any thoughts on the way the NFL has changed since you played?
Oh I have a lot of thoughts! I am pissed! I have two boys in the NFL – one with Dallas and one with Houston. I got to go to both of their camps and I was floored. They’d practice in pads once a day and complain. We had three-a-days! Our legs were dead by the end of the day – we didn’t have the energy to do anything but go back to our rooms. Now they have cold and hot tubs and dinners!
Lastly, you played with Carlton Haselrig who just passed away. Any thoughts about Carlton?
He did? Oh man, I didn’t know that. I roomed with Carlton!
Wow. Back then he was just so focused on making the team, like me. He used to be my bodyguard – he was a wrestling legend. He was so humble – I couldn’t believe how such a teddy bear could get so mean and rough when he wanted to. He would smile, but if you did something wrong he wouldn’t mess around with you. He took no shit. And this big guy drove this little Honda Civic – I would tease him on how he could fit in that car. He was frugal with money – I loved going out with him.
He had no idea he was a superstar – he never thought he would even make the team. He turned out to be an All-Pro who never played football before he came to the NFL. He never knew how good he was. His legs and leverage – he was the epitome of success. They should film a movie about him.
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