First, can you let me know what you’ve done career and family wise since your time in the NFL? And was that adjustment to post-NFL life difficult?
Well, I grew up in real estate. By the time I retired because of a bad knee in ’76, I was already involved in real estate brokerage and property management. So I did that for 40 years – all in the apartment industry at the management level.
I have to admit, the adjustment was difficult. I wasn’t emotionally ready but my body wasn’t capable. It took a couple of years to adjust to not playing. Fortunately, it gave me a lot of time to spend with my wife and kids and the rest of my family, so that was a saving grace. That was really nice.
So let’s go back to Pittsburgh – how did you find yourself with the Steelers after being drafted by the Cardinals?
I was a first round pick in ’67 by the Cardinals and played for them for five years before being traded to the Chargers. I was placed on waivers after four games into my second season there and picked up by the Steelers.
I didn’t have a good relationship with the Chargers and asked to be traded. I had some ups and downs with the coaches and asked to be traded, but they said no. Finally, they put me on waivers. That was Johnny Unitas’ last season in football.
Johnny told me he thought the Steelers would pick me up and was right. I wasn’t a major player for the Steelers but played some. I was just happy to go to a first class organization with great ownership and coaches.
But you didn’t return in ’74?
They wanted to re-sign me and asked me to do so, but I couldn’t. I had a personal situation – I was going through a divorce and had to stay on the West Coast to be with my kids. I jumped leagues actually and played in the WFL for a couple of years so I could stay on the West Coast. After that, I played at the University of Washington, so the Seahawks made me their first-ever signed player, but my knees were shot and I just couldn’t play any longer.
Did anyone help take you under their wing when you got to Pittsburgh?
At the time they all welcomed me. I was a seven-year vet so no one really mentored me. And I knew most of the guys – I played them twice a year when I was with the Cardinals. So there was no animosity and I became close to Bradshaw. He and I lived in the same apartment complex.
Were you able to get a sense that they were building to something big in Pittsburgh?
I could see what they were building. You could see the professionalism of the Rooneys. My first two weeks I stayed at the Fort Pitt Hotel, and I’d walk to the stadium in the mornings with Art and just talk together.
You could see the talent on the field – they were building towards a championship. Just the cohesiveness on offense and defense. You couldn’t imagine it being such a dynasty, but you could see it building to something big.
Any good stories of your time there?
This is typical of the dedication of the players. We had just beaten a team on their home field and were in the locker room after the game. Chuck Noll was giving his usual post-game talk, when he paused. You could hear the banging of weights in the background, from the weight room. That was Franco Harris, getting his workout in after playing a full game. That was the sign of a champion there.
There was such a blend of talent there. You had guys like Joe Greene, then guys like Rocky Bleier. Not that Rocky wasn’t talented – he was plenty talented. But it was just a nice compliment to Noll that he could get the best out of all of us, no matter who we were. He understood the highs and lows and understood the emotions of the players. He knew you didn’t coach everyone the same way. I imagine that was the way Vince Lombardi was like.
Was it tough to see the team win a Super Bowl after you moved out West?
You look back on it at the time. But the issues I had – I had to take care of business at home. You take what you have in front of you at the time.
Any thoughts on the way the game has changed since you played?
I’m disappointed in the game today. I’m 74 in August, and I got to play the game at a wonderful time. It was a different game then. The last 10-to-15 years it’s become more of a reality show. I don’t love the trash talk – we did a little of that in my day but only when emotions ran very high.
I remember scrimmaging in a game versus Gale Sayers, and he told me something that stayed with me. He said that if you are fortunate enough to play in a game and score a touchdown, just give the ball to the ref and go sit down on the bench. That stays with me today. I’m not impressed with the antics of the players today. They are impressive athletes though.
I just don’t like to watch them play. And the kneeling for the anthem – that has just got me totally disappointed.
Your faith is a big part of who you are as well – how did that affect you as a player?
I grew up in a Presbyterian family and had a number of ministers in the family. I don’t know how you get through life without at least a fiber of faith. With all of the ups and downs in life, I’ve become a stronger Christian over the years and even started a church in Hawaii when we lived there.
I wrote a book last year- my memoirs as a Christian. It honors my parents and my life as a Christian and was huge thing for me – for my family. Called “The Best for Him”.
We used to say the Lord’s prayer before and after every game, on our knees. We didn’t bash anyone else’s faith. Ahmad Rashad was my roommate for a while, and we honored each other’s faith. I just believe you need faith to get through life.
Any other thoughts about your time in Pittsburgh?
It was a wonderful experience. I am honored to have played. I don’t watch games today – I watch more college football now. People ask me if I wish I played today, with all of the money guys are being paid today. I tell them no. The game isn’t what it was supposed to be. The money can be too much of a temptation – you see what many players are going through today. The game was simpler then. It was hard, but it was a terrific game. I’m blessed to have played it then.
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