First, can you let me know what you got into after football?
After I left Pittsburgh I finally finished my undergraduate degree at NC State. While I was there I became a Graduate Assistant under Coach Keane. That was his last season there and when he left I moved over to the Wolfpack Club to handle fundraising for a year. I enjoyed it but I missed working with kids. I loved working with the donors but I felt I had more to give to kids.
So after that I started coaching high school football, then took that experience to go work in the mental health field in 2002-2003 working with at-risk boys. I saw a lot of them as a coach and really wanted to work more to help them. I opened up two group homes afterwards, which was a different kind of coaching, helping them with life skills.
Now I bought two foster agencies in 2007 and increased the staff from three to 22. We help foster parents get licensure and work with kids from infants to 21-year olds as they age out of DSS. Many high school kids graduate but have no family or support system structure – so we’ll stay with them and work with them.
And you got into officiating as well…?
Yeah seven years ago when my kids were out of school I got the time to work on officiating games. I didn’t have the time beforehand. It gives me an opportunity now to get back on the field and be close to the game again. I can’t imagine having tried to do that while my kids were in school.
Does it give you a greater appreciation now for what referees went through when you played?
Oh absolutely! It definitely makes me feel bad for some of the things said to referees in the past. It’s a thankless task. They work hard. It’s fun to be a part of the game without being the game. I like that quiet input. You don’t want to impact the game too much – you don’t want it to get to a point where people remember your name as a referee!
Did you have any strong influences as a coach?
I had some really good coaching yes – Bill Cowher and his staff and guys along the way from college and high school. Coaching gave me an opportunity to see how we really can affect kids. Especially at the high school level, you can do some real good or really damage kids. There’s incredible power coaches have and they’re not always aware of it or appreciate it. Coaches give a lot of input on how kids turn out – not just as players but as people.
As a coach you can uplift or crush kids. I speak to some groups here – Rotary Clubs and other groups – and I tell them they need to be careful on how they treat kids. They don’t always understand the power they have – you can make or break a kid. Kids meed to be mentored – lifted up and criticized some too. But you can turn them into successes or thugs – it’s a fragile balance.
I want to talk about your mentors in Pittsburgh in a second – but first, I wanted to find out whether being drafted by the Steelers was a surprise and what they said to you.
There was a lot of talk at the time but not specifically from the Steelers. The year before I had two roommates who were drafted. Before then I just figured I’d go straight from college to coaching. But soon after I got the feeling I could get an opportunity to play inn the NFL.
The Raiders and San Diego – they seemed to have the biggest interest. They reached out to me often. I didn’t hear much from Pittsburgh. But I was glad to go to Pittsburgh – Cowher was a great coach.
When I was drafted Cowher and Charles Bailey called me and told me they wanted guys who’d compete. They liked the fact I could be an emergency quarterback for them since I played quarterback up until my junior year in college – that helped them not have to carry three quarterbacks.
I didn’t know Bill’s background at the time – I knew he was a special teams coach before – that was it. But he made it clear I would have an opportunity to play – most likely on special teams. He wanted guys who could step out of their comfort zone. I knew I wasn’t going there and starting at receiver – they had veterans there like Thigpen, Mills, Graham and Stone. I just wanted an opportunity to compete.
Anyone help mentor you when you got there?
I’ll tell you – my first practice I got my head smashed in by Kevin Greene and Greg Lloyd. I learned quickly from them – my locker was right between Lloyd’s and Carnell Lake’s for some reason. I wondered if someone screwed up or something!
But being near those guys helped me more than anything else. Greg would knock your head off in practice then give you a big hug when you got into the locker room. Then he’d knock your head off again the next day. I remember my first walk-through – the itinerary said it was a non-contact drill. Well that was the hardest hit I ever had – by Lloyd. It was a shoulder and elbow that de-cleated me. I got up and thought about taking a swing for a second then thought the better of it and said “Nah!” I told Lloyd it was supposed to be a walk-through and Kevin Greene told me then that there were no walk-throughs. That they played with one speed in Pittsburgh.
After that I learned from the defense how to prepare every day. The offense taught me a lot but I learned more from the defensive guys. Rod Woodson liked to challenge and teach the young guys. He wanted to show us what it was like to play in the NFL. He would line up in our faces and wanted to see how many highlight film plays he could make out of you in Latrobe. We’d watch those videos and learn what not to do.
How hard was that adjustment for you to the NFL – especially since you really only had a little more than one year of experience playing wide receiver in college?
Being new to the position was no excuse. I had to learn to get my pads low as a receiver. I was 6’3″ but I had to learn to be physical and take it to the defensive players before they took it to you. I was going up against guys like D.J. Johnson, Rod, Carnell – God forbid if they got into you first. They were defensive backs but they played physical – like linebackers.
Everything they did was physical and a competition. Even walking down the hall – they had to go 100%. If there was a spitting contest they’d compete 100%. In college we’d compete but you turned it on and off. In Pittsburgh they never turned it off.
I had some great talks with offensive guys – Hoge, Stone…but the defensive guys – they just never stopped competing and preparing. They were the last to leave every day. I never saw that level of commitment before and I learned from that.
In a way I’m actually glad I was only there a few years. If I stayed longer I might have burned out. I’ve seen guys burn out if they weren’t careful. I was able to turn it off and I’m still not sure how my wife handled it from me. But those guys….
Your rookie season was Cowher’s first season – what did you notice most about him that year?
I was a quarterback and then wide receiver. If anyone could get a thin guy like me who never wanted to tackle anyone to want to tackle, that was a big deal. I give him such credit for doing that – he convinced me I was meaner, faster and stronger that I ever really was. He was really good at doing that. He made people believe and that’s a great power.
There would be games where we were getting our asses kicked but I knew we’d win somehow. That was the mindset he put us in. He would have us stay later because he wanted us to understand that no one would outwork us. And we believed in that. Our defense I can tell you never lost us games. Our offense just needed to hold on to give us a chance to win. If we didn’t score touchdowns, our defense would.
I know you scored a special teams touchdown your rookie season on a fumble recovery. Does that or other memories stand out to you?
Nothing about the games themselves stand out to me. I was just glad to be a part of what was going on there. The best memories are the more general ones – coming out off the tunnel in front of those great Steelers fans in Pittsburgh. I have amazing memories of that. And how relentless the fans were even when we lost that championship game to San Diego.
As someone with a coach’s mindset, the games themselves stand out less to me. I do remember how much of a nightmare it was trying to tackle Eric Metcalf! But really it’s more about the experience of the fans and the people I met along the way.
The transition after football stands out more – that was difficult. Younger guys tend to listen to the more successful guys, not the ones who weren’t the stars. But that’s a problem because once you leave the game half those people that wanted to talk to you and be around you go away. Some people struggle with that. It’s a mental health rollercoaster for some. The biggest hurdle for me was not realizing that the path down from football would be so rocky.
What happened after that third season in Pittsburgh?
I was on IR that whole season and everyone on IR was moved to the expansion draft. I was picked up by Jacksonville but got released, then went to the 49ers. I had a newborn son so after that I decided it was time to wrap it up.
Football – you have to believe in everything you’re taught when you played – that resilience and hard work. It can be sink or swim after football. I failed at a few businesses right after I left the game but kept at it and didn’t quit. Now, I can breathe and see the light at the end of the tunnel and do the stuff that I really like to do.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
