First off, what have you been up top since your time working for the Steelers?
When I left the Steelers I was hired by the FBI. I went through the academy then worked there for seven-and-a-half years. It was a great career – I worked undercover – but that took it’s toll at home. After that I went into corporate security and am working now as a VP of Global Security. It’s been an interesting journey – it’s been an incredible amount of global travel over the last 16 years.
I worked for Bayer than Mylan – in one year I did six trips to India. Those frequent flyer miles paid for a lot of vacations!
What about you work as a scout really translated well to what you did afterwards?
Early in my career I would look at how people were successful – I tried to emulate that style. Tom Donohoe – he hired me and was not very presumptuous. He let his work speak for itself – he was a class act. He never wanted to be in the spotlight – he didn’t do a lot of interviews. He was very influential to me. It was almost a hindrance – in the corporate world you have to tout yourself more to get your budgets approved and get your way more.
How did you start as a scout?
I played football at East Tennessee State. Then I went to Ole Miss and Phil Kreidler was there. He was the same age as I was and was single too so we’d go get beers together and became good friends. Then I was hired at Georgia Tech managing the operations and recruiting – I took care of the scouts. A lot of people liked to come to Georgia – it was an easy state to travel to. Tom Donohoe came with Phil a lot and we’d BS together.
When Tom Modrak left Pittsburgh, they promoted McCarty. Gorscak became the regional scout and so they hired me as their BLESTO scout.
Anyone help mentor you there?
I got to meet with Jack Butler – his office was like a time capsule. He was patient – I learned a lot from him. A lot of the older scouts on the West Coast helped me too – Walter Jewell in Dallas, Dice from Minnesota, Tom McCullough in Seattle….Tom and I are still good friends today.
What was Jack like to work with?
Jack was hands-off. He made sure we got our reports in first – he was old school. That’s when we used floppy discs – I’m not sure he even knew how to put discs in. But as a BLESTO scout he wanted to make sure we got our tasks done first before we did what the team was asking for us to do. He was patient and never lost his temper and was always there if you needed him.
What was the difference between BLESTO and being a Steelers scout?
Back in the 90’s as a BLESTO scout our job was to identify the talent in our region. I would share my report with all of the other BLESTO teams – it basically listed height, weight, speed and my score based on watching film of the player. It was what all the other scouts ended up looking at.
I worked a lot with the Western Regional scout, Bobby Layne. It was like being an investigator as a BLESTO scout. We all knew who the good players were. The interesting part was finding those guys that you didn’t know about that could make a team.
How did you do that?
You had to visit all the smaller schools too and watch them play. Sometimes the smaller schools would play bigger schools so you could see them then.
The Steelers always placed extra emphasis on character. I remember one player at USC – RJ Sowers – he was the best player in the PAC 10. But the problem was, he was a turd. His coaches didn’t like him. The Jaguars drafted him in the first round and he was out of the league his first year. The Steelers didn’t even look at him.
When I was looking at a player in Oregon an older scout knew I was working for the Steelers by the questions I asked. I was asking more about character issues than about skill.
The best guys to talk to then were the strength coaches. The trainers couldn’t tell you much due to HIPAA, and the positional coaches were only allowed to spend a limited amount of time with players. But the strength coaches spent a lot of time with the players and could tell you if they were late, if they faked injuries, if they worked hard – stuff like that.
What made you decide to become a scout if your passion was the FBI?
I wanted to be in the FBI since I was a kid but the bureau didn’t hire then until people were in their 30’s.
I was a graduate assistant at East Tennessee when I visited my wife who was a year behind me. The graduate assistant there had just quit and I wasn’t doing anything, so when they asked me if I was interested I took it. It shows that it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. The older scouts used to tell me who the right administrative assistants were to give donuts to to get you in the door.
I remember at one point sharing an office with Doug Marone and Bill O’Brien. Two head coaches and an FBI agent!
What memories stand out to you most of your time in Pittsburgh?
I frickin’ loved Pittsburgh – the city. And it was enlightening working for them. I’d see those college facilities before I started working for the Steelers – how nice those were. Then you see what Three Rivers was like back in the 70’s. That yellow shag rug that had so many stains on it from people who have walked on it for years. There wasn’t a lot of fluff – they just went in and got work done. No egos. Just down to earth people.
Cowher was a great guy too. You had that image of him yelling and his temper but he was also prepared in those draft meetings. He knew the players. He would challenge you to to see if you’d back down from him.
What made their draft process so different, outside of the focus on character?
All the coaches were involved when they evaluated players. It was a business-like approach. A lot of scouts would flaunt who they worked for. The Steelers just got their work done – they just wanted to win. Whether you were a BLESTO scout or the director of scouting, everyone had a say.
It was fun too. If you were late to a meeting it cost you $5. If you argued with Donohoe that was another $5 for arrogance. At the end of the day we’d play one hand of poker and the winner had to take everyone out for drinks!
I remember one day, Cowher was late. There was a Pirates game against the Cardinals going on. Cowher walked into the meeting, put a $100 bill and a signed ball by Mark McGwire on the table and said, “I’m late and I’m arrogant! Here’s $100!”
Were the players you were most excited about as a scout – that you wanted to see be in Pittsburgh?
Joey Porter – he was so fast as a defensive end. Just watching him at the East-West Shrine game. Most teams then didn’t play a 3-4 so we had to evaluate guys differently then.
Peter Sermon – he was a good linebacker foe the Titans. Deltha O’Neal. Rueben Droughns… I watched the Bengals draft Akili Smith. His school had a graduate assistant who’s sole job was to get him to class. He was not a smart kid. That was a dumb pick by the Bengals.
What’s the biggest mistake a scout can make?
I think getting too tied to a player. You see guys play and evaluate them. Maybe you figure them a third round score. Then another scout gives them a first round score. It’s all very subjective. Was he injured when I saw him play? Was something else going on with him? You have to take the totality of the player and that’s what the Steelers did well. They did a lot of cross-checking by different scouts. There are times when all three scouts were talking about the player and they were all wondering if they were talking about the same player. If you liked a guy, you had to fight for him.
And pay your $5?
Yeah!
Any other moments of your time there stand out?
I couldn’t believe we took Scott Shields before Joey Porter – a white safety out of Weber State! I remember wanting Jevon Kearse over Troy Edwards. There of us were on the phone with three different guys when Charles Bailey pointed at me. I was on the phone with Troy and got to tell him we were drafting him. But I wanted Kearse.
Mr. Rooney was a fantastic person too. He was always pleasant. I remember when a few of us went to Vincent’s Pizza in Greentree. Phil, me and Dan Jr. Before Mr. Rooney came to the table Phil told me that we don’t drink around Mr. Rooney – we’d go out afterwards. I had just been there for two months at that point. Well, Mr. Rooney sits down and asks us “Do you think we need two pitchers or three?” He was just a regular guy.
I’m not a flashy guy and that was the persona of the team too. I didn’t feel like I worked for a big-time NFL team. It was a team that believed in what they did and wasn’t going to let anyone influence how they did things.
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