First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?
Well, I’m currently the sale manager for a Toyota dealership. I’ve been doing that for four years now. I’m hoping to get back to the NFL as a scout. I did that for 15 years or so. I spoke with my former GM in New Orleans who was associated with the AAF now, but they were still figuring out their scouting process.
Was it difficult adjusting to post-NFL life?
It was difficult in a sense. After football most players are trying to figure out what to do next for the rest of our lives. I had a degree and went back to school. I got in to the commercial cleaning business then into systems development for five years.
It was an adjustment. A lot of your college friends moved on – they didn’t play football or pursue the NFL dream. They were established in their careers. So you look past your NFL life for that next thing.
How did you get involved in scouting?
Through a guy I played with in Pittsburgh – Joey Clinkscales. When he was a scout he used to come through my city and stay with me at my house. I picked his brain – what the scouting world looked like and how to get involved in it. He told me the process and after that I contacted John Wooten and Dick Haley for jobs. They tried to discourage me. It’s a tough job – on the road all the time. You have to be very disciplined – to gather the info and do the reports every day.
I had to push through the discouragement – and I finally got an opportunity to scout with National Football Scouting. Its different now – teams designate their own scouts to the combines, but then the scouts worked for the combine – not the team.
What did you learn from your time in Pittsburgh that helped you as a scout?
One thing I learned is that you can’t count anyone out based on what school or experience they had. In the NFL there are players from all walks of life. Just because you were from a smaller school doesn’t mean you aren’t as talented as an athlete from a major university.
I got to see the different talents of the athletes. How you can use an athlete. I played with guys like Woodson and Walls – two different guys, but both were very successful in the NFL.
So let’s talk about coming to Pittsburgh in free agency. Why Pittsburgh? And did anyone really help you get integrated with the team?
For me it was just about opportunity. They gave me an opportunity really. That’s how it came about. Once I got in camp and saw the other players and what they could do, I looked at myself and thought, I could play with those guys.
It was surprising, knowing we were all competing for jobs, but it was still a brotherhood. Some guys were better at helping than others, but the guys that were more secure about their place on the team were the guys that helped the most. Some may try to take you out and those can be distractions, but those were few in number. You realize it’s a business though. It’s not just about your play, you have to take care of your body, study and learn the playbook – you have to approach it as a business.
Stepping back for a second – as a scout, how do you see that side of prospects?
Well, you interview people around them. Other players, coaches, trainers, academic advisors, strength coaches – you’re building a profile of the guy. It’s a crapshoot certainly, but you can look at certain things to minimize the risk.
Part of it too is about their injury history. Are they injury prone?
And, what are they asked to do by their coaches. How are they being used? How do they learn – do they have the ability to learn things quickly and well? Does he learn by being told or does he need to be walked through things? You need to know that – how they learn and handle and understand adjustments.
Any memories that stick out to you of your time in Pittsburgh?
It was a blue-collar town and the team came to work. It had a strong work ethic and the coaches tried to get that our of you. I recall Chuck Noll saying that he’d rather a 4.6.player who hits with the impact of a 4.6 player than a 4.3 player who hits with the impact of a 4.6 player. He cared about effort and desire. When he said that, he was saying he wanted a guy who gave maximum effort – who wasn’t slowing down on the field.
Lastly, any thoughts about the way the NFL has changed since you played?
Well, the game is always evolving. Always changing. You just have to adapt and adjust just when we did when we were playing.
It is a different game now yes, with hitting being outlawed. But you can’t outlaw the physicality of the game. That’s what makes it unique and why people come to see it. It’s a unique sport – you can’t legislate the hitting out of the game.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
