First, can you let me know what you got into after football? Was the transition difficult?
I got into developing real estate – subdivisions and that kind of thing. My brother was involved in it and we both decided to form a company together.
I don’t remember the transition being difficult – it was seamless for me. After that first season with the Steelers I had to do my military service obligation and went into the Air Force. I was assigned to the Hamilton Air Force Base in San Francisco and ended up playing for their football team as well. Guys like Frank Speno, Bob McElwee and Charles Eckerly were all good players there too.
You played quarterback initially at Michigan before moving to running back. Why that transition – and was it difficult?
It wasn’t tough. I enjoyed being a running back more – handling the ball and having more control. It was more fun for me. I was one of the two youngest actually to ever start at quarterback for Michigan.
How did you find out you were drafted by the Steelers?
Those days, you had to have four years of college before you were eligible for the draft. You had no choice – teams just picked you like they were choosing sides. The Steelers picked me. The general manager, Fran Fogarty, called me and told me I had been drafted by the Steelers. I had to decide quickly whether I wanted to come to camp or not and decided to go.
Did anyone take you under their wing at all when you got to camp?
No! I remember being on my own really. It was make it or break it – and the toughest football I ever played. I realized after I got there that I was playing with guys who were playing football for a living – they didn’t want to help some rookie coming in to take their jobs. It was dog eat dog. But I made it.
It was interesting. You just didn’t get close with the veteran players then as a rookie. They all hung out together. I didn’t understand it then, but I do now.
How did you manage to do so?
You just had to be better than the other guys and play tough football. I just liked the game and was just good enough to make it.
I remember coming in on Mondays and wondering where the guys were that were just there last Friday. Then it dawned on me – that whole parade of running backs they had come in every week – most just didn’t make the team. They kept bringing them in but I kept on starting until the regular season kicked in.
Back then the veterans didn’t play much at all during camp. The rookies played in all the preseason games – I guess so the coaches could see if they could play and hang on.
Any on-field moments stand out?
I remember playing against Chicago – the first play was a running play and I got hit in the ribs with one of the Bears’ player’s helmet. I had a huge pain there the entire game. After the game they looked at it and decided I had broken four ribs. But I was able to play the entire game.
I also remember my parents and brother being able to come to some games – that was a lot of fun for me.
Any of the guys stand out to you – that you got closer with?
Art Davis – he was a Mississippi State guy and he and I were good friends. He got hurt unfortunately and couldn’t play but he still was able to stay with the team. He and I hung out a lot. I used to golf with him before he passed away not too long ago.
Ted Marchibroda – he wasn’t a big guy but he was tough as nails. He was a lefty – his balls were hard to catch because they had the opposite rotation. I just remember him scrambling and weaving around the defense and getting the ball downfield for big completions.
And you had some Michigan guys there – Lynn Chadnois, Lowell Perry…
Lowell was a good player too yes. He was a good wide receiver – he was there for two years before I got there.
And Lynn – he was a Michigan State guy and as a Michigan guy it took time getting to like him! But he was a veteran player when I got there. During exhibition games I was the starter – for all six games. I felt good about being the starter going into the regular season. Our first games was at Forbes Field – that’s when I learned that Lynn was going to be the starter. I realized then that the rookies didn’t have any real rights there – the veterans ran the team! We were just there to play in the exhibition games.
What happened after that season in Pittsburgh?
Well, what happened was I had to serve my commission in the military. I went into the Air Force after that season. The Air Force deferred that first year but then I had to go. I went to flight school after that first season and became an Air Force pilot for two years.
After those two years the Steelers wanted me to come back and play. Hank Stram when he was in Dallas and the Raiders too – they wanted me to sign with them. But I figured it was time to retire after that.
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