First, I know there are many stories of your time in Cleveland and trade to Pittsburgh after you were drafted. Tell me what happened, from how you remember it?
Yes, thank you. I played quarterback at Pitt. I was drafted by the Cleveland Browns, but they wanted me to play defensive back in the NFL. I would throw the ball around in practice and I was good. I knew what I was doing – how to drop back and my footwork. I don’t think Cleveland liked that. I guess I had too much promise for a Black quarterback during those times!
So, since Cleveland saw that I wanted to play quarterback, they decided to trade me. They didn’t believe I could have enough training to play even though I played quarterback all through high school and in college. I felt I did. The Steelers had wanted to draft me so when I was available they traded for me.
But you never played for Pittsburgh?
Well, I was Black man in the 50’s, and they heard me talking to a woman on the phone, who happened to be my girlfriend. She was White – they said that it didn’t sound like a Black woman so that’s how they knew she was White. Well, they heard me exchanging words with her about how I loved her. After that, they told me I shouldn’t pack my bags for the game in Minneapolis. When they came back from that game I was let go.
Who talked to you about why this happened?
I had a friend at the time who worked at the newspaper. He told me all of this. That they heard my wife’s voice on the phone. He kept me informed and told me why I was let go. The team didn’t tell me anything.
After that, no other team would sign me. I just played for Cleveland for the one year then practiced in Pittsburgh. After Pittsburgh let me go I got my shoes and equipment from the locker room and that was it.
How hard was your adjustment to life after that time in the NFL?
It was a hell of an adjustment. I tried to find a job and career. I moved to Palo Alto and finally hooked up with a business that worked with restaurants. I was the first Black person they hired. They were having big problems with firing Blacks for no reason and brought me in to help work through those issues. That ended up becoming what I did for a living. I worked with restaurants and corporations, helping Black men and corporate women work out issues of unfairness and inequality.
What do you think of the NFL today ?
I have no problems with Black and White men kneeling. There’s nothing wrong with that. I saw Trump and his ideas on that after watching him for five minutes and thought, “Oh boy.” I’m glad I’m not there now. But maybe I should have been. He was way off base.
You won some awards recently on your playing days right?
In 2015 I won the Pittsburgh Pro Football Hall of Fame Lifetime Achievement Award. It’s funny. They just sent me a box with the award. They didn’t call or tell me anything!
I also won the Pittsburgh High School City League All Sports Hall of Fame Award in 2016, an award signed by the mayor of Pittsburgh. The University of Pittsburgh also gave me a Distinguished Alumni Award in 2007.
Lastly, you have a grandson that also plays football?
Yes, the White girlfriend I was speaking to in Pittsburgh – I married her not long after that. We had two sons, and we now have a grandson who is 15 who plays football and is very good at it!
Any lessons you give him?
Yes – just to keep his nose clean. Just to keep his nose straight. No drugs or alcohol!
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
