First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
After I was waived by Pittsburgh, I did a short stint in Canada, playing for the B.C. Lions. But when I got there I didn’t like the game – I only stuck around for four weeks then I told them it wasn’t for me.
What didn’t you like?
It just wasn’t the same game. Three downs, the field, all the passing. It was a totally different game. I just wasn’t used to it. So I told them I appreciated them bringing me in but it wasn’t going to work out.
After that?
After that I got a call from the Raiders and they brought me in. I made it to the last week before they cut me. The funny thing was they wanted me to play defense. I played linebacker my first two years in college but I moved to running back my final two years. But the Raiders still wanted me to play defensive end for them. They liked the way I played linebacker and felt I could rush the passer.
I was 6’2″, 245 pounds and could run a 4.5 40. But it’s a game of numbers. That year they drafted a defensive end round one and they ended up keeping him over me of course. Do they keep their first round pick or the guy they brought in as a free agent? It was a no brainer.
So after that I went home and worked as a teacher. In the middle of the school year I got a call from the Portland Breakers of the USFL. They told me Al Davis called them and wanted me to play for Portland. They had a connection with Oakland – they were sort of like a feeder team for them. The idea was that after I played for Portland I’d go back to camp for Oakland.
What did you tell them?
I told them I appreciated the offer but I had a job now as a teacher and wasn’t just going to leave it. I told them if they wanted me to come on after the school year was over to call me. I figured I’d never hear from them again. But sure enough, they called. So I went out there and played the final four games – got some decent Summer money.
I wasn’t working out much before then but I wasn’t too out of shape! They had me start my first game there at defensive end and I sacked John Reaves a couple of times – he was Birmingham’s quarterback then. They kept trying different offensive linemen to neutralize me but none really could. I also blocked a pass and caught one for a 68-yard interception.
After the season the Raiders did call me back to camp, but I didn’t want to go. I had a job then as a Supervisor for the Parks Department of Austin.
Five years later I started working in Claims at State Farm Insurance – that’s how I kept in touch with Edmund Nelson – he had become an agent so we were on the same network at State Farm. In 2021, I served on a federal grand jury during that time and the magistrate appointed me as foreman. I really enjoyed the challenge and responsibility. This experience led me to pursue an opportunity with the Supreme Court of Virginia to serve as a magistrate there, which I currently do.
Looking at your time in Pittsburgh, were you surprised to be drafted by the Steelers?
I wasn’t surprised – to be honest though I wanted to get drafted by a West Coast team. I wasn’t happy being drafted by an East Coast team. I grew up in Texas and Winters there you wore shorts! It was a big adjustment for me.
The first day of the draft I followed it, but on the second day after I didn’t get a call I just figured if someone wants me they’ll call me and let me know. When I was drafted, one of the Rooneys called me. I was drafted there as a running back – I have Rocky Bleier to thank for retiring and opening up a roster spot for me.
Did anyone help you – take you under their wing at all?
Once camp broke and I made the team, yes. But during camp it was dog-eat-dog. But afterwards some of the guys helped me get settled in. Lynn Swann helped the most – he was going through a divorce and invited me to stay with him.
All the receivers and running backs were welcoming once camp broke. We were like brothers then.
What was it like being on the practice squad?
Especially with my size and height, I think I was able to help them with some good looks. A little of that was giving them a look for the defense before we played Earl Campbell since he was such a big guy too.
The drills we did – it was mostly against the linebackers and defensive backs. The one guy I hated to go up against was Robin Cole. I never could get a clean hit on him! Most of the other guys I could handle but he was so under-rated. A really good player.
Any memories of your time there stand out the most?
I remember going in thinking they would be a bunch of primadonnas. But they were down-to-earth guys. Terry Bradshaw was a prankster. It just shocked me.
One moment I remember in practice was with LC. Greenwood. We were told to take it easy on the vets. “We were all on the same team.” we were told. “Take it easy on them – don’t get them injured.” Well early on in camp I was running the ball and L.C. wasn’t in a good position to make the tackle, so he just punched me in the stomach instead. I said “Wait – I thought we were supposed to be taking it easy!” He just told me to “Suck it up, Rook!” That’s what he called me. “Rook.” He never called me by my name!
Any other good ones?
Ron Johnson was covering me – giving me lots of smack talk. Well, I went out for a pass and he was in coverage. He was right on me but I was much taller and the quarterbacks exploited that and threw it up high. Johnson didn’t think I’d catch it but I went up and got it. He was amazed and the smack talk stopped after that!
What happened the next season there?
They moved me to tight end. I think they were trying to prepare for Randy Grossman’s departure. I guess they didn’t feel I did a good enough job to keep me. They drafted Abercrombie round one too – a Baylor guy! As a Rice guy, he was a nemesis of mine!
Do you watch football now?
One thing about me – all throughout my career I was never a spectator. I couldn’t get into watching football. I went to some college games and I was able to pick up on what the teams were doing and what they should do – I could get into it that way. But I didn’t try to go to many and I don’t follow any particular team.
I never lived for football – it was a tool for me. It was a good way to get into college and it was something I was good at. But it wasn’t something I needed. I had a lot of friends who felt football was their life and had a hard time giving it up.
I think that’s why I didn’t want to go back to the Raiders. When I got to training camp I didn’t expect to experience all of that uncertainty. I just didn’t want to subject myself to that anymore. I didn’t like that uncertainty.
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