First, can you let me know what you started doing after your time in football?
I went to work and got my degree after I was done playing. I got my Masters and coached for one year at Prairie View A&M but I didn’t like that much.
I went back home to Corpus Christi and worked for the school district there in administration. I started up a program to work with drop outs. I also had a food service business on the side but that got too big. Real big. So I got out of that and opened up a few IHOPS and got tired of that after a while.
Now my wife and I have our own smaller business. I’m real close to the church and raised five kids. All five have graduated from schools and work around the country. I’ve been blessed.
How hard was the post-football adjustment for you and why did you stop playing?
I got hurt and couldn’t play any more. It was tough when the doctors told me I couldn’t play. But then I just went about my business. I moved on. You just keep going. That’s what I did then and that’s what I’m doing now.
How did you get hurt?
My clavicle was broken – it was separated from my sternum. I was lucky nothing was punctured. That was the end of that when it happened.
I was playing for New Orleans after I played in Pittsburgh. We were in San Diego and I was on the ground on my side when some guy landed on my shoulder.
I know you started your career in Buffalo – how did you end up in Pittsburgh?
Pittsburgh drafted me originally, but Buffalo did as well. It was the AFL – a new league and I decided to go play for Buffalo. But after a couple of seasons I decided I wanted to go back and play in the NFL. The Rooneys were real good people. I felt like I had made a mistake not playing for them in the first place.
How was the adjustment to Pittsburgh, coming from a different league and team like Buffalo?
When I left Buffalo we had won everything. We won two AFL Championships there. We never won anything in Pittsburgh though. Those guys didn’t have the get up and go to play and win like they did in Buffalo. Coming from a winning team, then going to a team like Pittsburgh where guys would say “Here we go again” whenever games got tough, it was hard. In Buffalo we’d tell each other “Come on! We can do this!” No one did that in Pittsburgh.
Did you try?
I spoke up, but I was the only one really. We had an attitude in Buffalo. When I got to Pittsburgh I asked myself what kind of guys I was playing with!
Who were the guys that you got to know well in Pittsburgh?
One good friend was Joe Greene. We both went to North Texas and are close friends still today. Our wives were best friends. Before he was drafted, Joe, Glen Holloway and I went up to Pittsburgh. This was after I left Pittsburgh, but I still had friends there. So we all went up and had a great time. Then the draft came up after that and Pittsburgh took Joe with the first pick! We laughed about that – we had a real good time there.
I told Joe when he was drafted that he went to a good team. There were good people there and he did real good up there.
The Rooneys were also good people. When you walked on to the field they were always there, talking with the players. They always spoke and talked with you and were nice to you. That wasn’t the case across all the teams I played for. Old man Rooney and his son Dan – they were good people. And Pittsburgh was a good town.
How did you end up leaving Pittsburgh after that season? You had contributed some on offense.
I got drafted by New Orleans in the expansion draft. I was happy to get up and out of there. I would have been happier but I got hurt.
And, there was much more prejudice there then. We still had to live and stay in certain areas then – we couldn’t live where we wanted to. But I was used to that – I had seen that a lot already. I was the first Black All State high school player in Texas. One of two Black kids on my high school team. When we played other high schools they’d chant “Beat those n**gers”. But we won!
Do you watch football now? Do you feel today’s players appreciate the groundwork guys like you laid for them?
I don’t watch much – I watch some. We sacrificed a lot playing for the NFL but I don’t regret it. It was a good time.
Today’s players – I don’t think they show their appreciation enough for what we did. But I can’t say they don’t feel it or not. They just don’t show it enough if they do.
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