First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I became a financial advisor – I started in 1983 and got my license then while I was still playing. I always knew I was one step away to unemployment. I worked for Dean Witter then became the Regional Director at Wells Fargo. Then I became an advisor at the Capital Group – they were considered the gold standard at the time and held in the highest regard. Their private group practice was really just starting up then but I had good people there working for me. I met the managing director – Dick Barker – during the JFK Memorial Tennis Tournament so I guess I owe my job to JFK!
How difficult was the post NFL adjustment for you – what made it easier or harder?
I always knew I was one step away from unemployment. I was cut three times before I made it with the 49ers. So I was always prepared for life after football. My dad was always on me like a cheap suit too to make sure I had something else in my life. My dad was a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy during World War II. He was a no BS guy – but I love him!
You were a great multi-sport athlete in high school – a championship wrestler and all-league baseball player as well as an offensive player of the year running back. How did that variety of experience help you as a football player?
I think all of those sports required different skill sets but all required one thing – a tough mental attitude. Especially wrestling.
No one to blame but yourself there!
Exactly right. I boxed too. Those were difficult sports but I loved them and think it was good preparation for the NFL. Boxing – you have to face your fear every time you box and you learn from your mistakes. That applied to football too and fortunately I was able to put it all together with the 49ers.
When the 49ers first cut me I felt like “Here we go again – just like the Steelers.” But Bill brought me back again and I was there for six years., At the end he said he was glad I had a plan after football when he cut me that last time!
You started as an UDFA in Pittsburgh – why Pittsburgh?
I first signed with the Raiders but I only lasted there for three days. I really didn’t get an opportunity to do anything before they dismissed me. I was down after that – I felt like I wasn’t given an opportunity to show what I could do.
After that I got a one-day trial with the 49ers but they cut me, then I signed with the Steelers. The Steelers came to BYU – I was a good Catholic kid going to a Mormon school! They had a tryout there with lots of teams represented and the Steelers saw me there.
Any mentors in Pittsburgh that helped you during your time there?
My biggest mentor was Rocky Bleier. He took me under his wing. There was an article in the local newspaper on me saying I was doing well in camp and I was starting to get some attention. Rocky was my hero then – I read his book and admired him. We were both similar sizes too. He was just an inspiration to me.
When we broke camp he said I should stay with him at his house and had me using his weight room. Not many guys do that. I think because I told him how he was my hero he was kind enough to offer that to me. I just got back to Pittsburgh not too long ago and my wife and I had dinner with him.
When I got cut he told me I was just one knock away – one more knock and I’d make it through the door. That’s what helped me to keep going after Pittsburgh let me go.
Any good/fun memories of your time in Pittsburgh?
I was in awe of guys like Franco Harris and Terry Bradshaw. They were all so well-known – they just won a Super Bowl and won so many playoff games.
I remember the goal line drill – the Oklahoma Drill. We used to call it the Nutcracker! The first time I ran that drill I went up against Joe Greene and Jack Lambert. It was a fullback, halfback and center versus three guys on defense.
You remember who the third guy was on defense?
I don’t no – it’s not like they needed another guy with Jack and Joe there!
Well, my guy did what they call a no-look block and got destroyed up front. Lambert then came in and destroyed me! That was my welcome to the Steelers.
How did you end up in San Francisco?
I stuck with Pittsburgh until their last cut – that was the year after they won the Super Bowl. I think Bill was impressed with that and brought me in that Summer and I made the team then.
What made Bill Walsh so special as a coach from your perspective?
I later coached with Bill at Stanford. He wanted me to coach with him in San Francisco but I was dedicated then to my investment career.
Bill was so detailed. He was amazing at teaching fundamentals. The best guy I ever saw doing that was Chuck Noll. But Bill was terrific too and was a genius at game planning and offensive strategy. He had Siefert coaching the defense too, thank God.
Who helped further that mentoring in San Francisco?
No one really. Bill just took a liking to me, I think because when you have less talent, you have to hustle more and that appealed to him. You need one or two guys like that on every team. Not every player – but one or two guys like me!
Any irony in your one touchdown reception coming against the Bengals – a Steelers rival?
It’s funny because we played them in the Super Bowl that year – it was a great game. A tight game that could have gone either way. Thank God for Bill and his game planning.
Any thoughts on the way the game has changed over the years?
I don’t think it’s changed that much. There are always people getting bigger and faster. The game is dynamic because of that. When guys get larger you get bigger impacts. Mass times velocity means bigger impact.
But I think the game is the same in many ways. The helmets are a little bit better but not dramatically so I’d bet. It’s a punishing game, especially for undersized guys like me.
I’m just grateful to Rocky and to the Steelers for signing me and giving me a shot. Rocky is so generous in spirit – he came to my wedding! To have someone in your life like that is very special.
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