First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
Now I’m doing physical therapy-working with and training kids and adults.
I also have been coaching for now, wow, over 35 years or so. Mostly youth sports – football and baseball – lots of high school coaching. I went back to my junior college – Long Beach – and coached there for a couple of years but then had kids and stepped away for a bit before I couldn’t take it any more and went back into it.
But other than that just enjoying life and being a father. My kids are still young so I’m enjoying that.
Any coaching influences that influenced how you approached coaching and training?
Yes – a couple stand out.
First, going back to high school, I’ve had coaches at every level that gave me positive information that I was able to use. One of the main ones was Will Shaw at Long Beach. He was more than just a coach – he was a mentor. He told me to stay on my path. That I could have a good future, I just needed to hang around good people and stay off of the streets and stay out of trouble. He was a big influence.
At Utah, Coach Pierce was a good influence. He gave me positive feedback and kept me grounded. He talked to me about being a good person, not just a good athlete.
And in the pros, two people in Pittsburgh were a big influence.
Dwayne Woodruff – he saw something in me – he told me that I could spend time in the league and that he’d show me how. And he did.
What did he show you?
He taught me how to read a quarterback and helped me when we watched film. To watch the other team’s receivers and return teams to pick up things.
Tony Dungy helped me in Pittsburgh too. He illustrated a calmness of the game and a willingness to help any player that needed it. You never felt like you couldn’t approach him with anything. Whether it was about football or just questions about life, you knew you could talk to him and joke with him. I saw that coaching side and decided that was something I really liked.
Looking back at being drafted by the Steelers, were you surprised they drafted you in the fifth round?
What happened was that several teams worked me out in college. I thought I’d go to Kansas City in the third round – that was the information I received from them. All of the sudden my coach told me that Pittsburgh wanted to work me out too and he asked if I wanted to work out for them. I said “Hell yeah!” I was born in Pittsburgh and was a Steelers fan well before we moved to California. I was the only Steelers fan I think in my neighborhood. I was wearing those thick jerseys they had then – a Franco Harris one!
I think they were pleased with my speed, quickness and agility. When they worked me out I shattered their 20 yard shuttle time. They had me do it a second time and said “Ok. It wasn’t a mistake.” I knew they had interest in me then.
You were one of the best return men in college then as well as a defensive back. Did the Steelers talk to you about what they had in mind for you?
Back then no one discussed much with me about that after I was drafted. Most return men were wide receivers – I was a diamond-in-the-rough as a defensive back. I actually thought I could have been a receiver in college.
But in Pittsburgh I worked my way up through the ranks at cornerback. When I first got there in camp I was three and three – the third corner on both sides. Of course then my field-time was limited – you didn’t do much work in camp on the return game. But I made some plays in one-on-ones on defense. Then I worked my way up to two and two at corner. After that I played nickel and backed up both corners. When I went in Dwayne moved inside and I played outside.
But then, unfortunately, I broke my leg in the last preseason game versus the Giants. That’s after I had a return for a touchdown that preseason.
What happened after that?
Rodney Carter and I bonded during camp – he and I were close. I still talk to Rodney. He got hurt in the third preseason game against Dallas.
When I got hurt a player got knocked into me and I twisted my leg to get free, but it got caught and I broke my tibia. That meant a lot of rehab over the next two years.
I had to have multiple surgeries. The first was to repair the break and add a plate and put screws in. Once I was ready to come to camp next season I knew something wasn’t right still. When I lifted my foot, my toes would cramp up. I found out that the orthopedic surgeon didn’t put the tendons back right. I had shortened tendons that would cramp up and that required another surgery to do a tendon release. And added to that, a year after my first surgery they needed to go in and take the plate out. So I had to go through a lot of rehab.
What was the team telling you throughout that process?
There wasn’t much communication from the team. They released me in 1987. They paid my salary but I was no longer there. I tried out for a number of teams – Miami, Kansas City, the Jets and the 49ers before Buffalo signed me.
What are some of the best memories you have of your time in Pittsburgh?
My main fun in Pittsburgh was just being back home again and seeing family I hadn’t seen in over 14 years. That was the biggest part.
The rookie class that year – we were very tight. We hung out a lot- went to the movies and the mall near Latrobe. We were in no-man’s land out there near camp staying in those skunk-infested dorms!
But it was fun just hanging out with the guys and forming bonds and friendships. No one was jealous of anyone in that draft class – we all rooted for each other to make the team. Me and Rodney always hung out. We were both on crutches one week apart from one another after our injuries.
One funny memory – he just got his car – a manual car – a Maxima. I couldn’t drive yet with my injury. So he would pick me up when we went places, our crutches stowed in the back of the car. He drove me to get my car – I wanted to drive a stick, so there I was driving a stick on one leg!
You were one of the best return men in college. What made you so effective?
I did this while in college. I had good peripheral vision and good judgement. I didn’t like to fair-catch the ball and was able to scan the field before I caught the ball.
Once the ball was kicked and I saw what direction it was going. I was able to peek away for a second to see if there were any opposing jerseys coming at me unblocked. It was just a quick peek then I’d get my eyes on the ball again. Announcers commented on that – they noticed that as they watched me play. That helped me to take that first step. I always felt like the first people could never tackle me. That was my thought process – that I wouldn’t get tackled by that first person. After that I felt like I was fast and could make big plays.
Any thoughts on the way the NFL has changed the return game now?
As a return man I’m disappointed in some of the changes but also happy to see them looking out for players and their safety.
I don’t like the fact there are no kick returns any more. You see guys kicking 60 yard field goals – there’s no reason to move the ball up on kickoffs. They’re kicking them out of the end zone anyway. Taking that kind of electric play out of the game is sad to me. Especially after a team scores – to take that chance to score right back out of the game is sad.
I do like that they took the wedge out of the game to help with safety issues.
I also noticed that it used to be we had a two-yard cushion on punt returns. Now players seem to be right in guys’ faces when they catch the ball. I have noticed that.
But the main issue I have is them taking kick returns out of the game. That I don’t like.
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