First, what have you been up to since your playing days?
For the past 25 years I’ve been working for Casper Caterpillar supervising logistics there. I’m a facility manager – a senior manager of logistics.
I earned more in the two weeks leading up to the playoff loss to San Diego than I did in a year working at Caterpillar – so that was a big adjustment. It was an eye-opener. John Mackovic – my college coach – he always said to have a backup plan. I took my education seriously because of that and was able to find a second career.
What’s been the biggest adjustment?
The hardest thing is that not everyone is as interested in doing what it takes to win and be the best. In football everyone is doing their best for a common goal but outside of football some people aren’t as interested in doing that.
I work with people very day on lean deployment and other processes. It’s every person, every process, every day. That’s what I tell everyone. Bill Cowher told us we always had to try and lift each other up. That doesn’t happen as much outside of football.
You’ve done some coaching as well – what are some of the big lessons you’ve applied from your playing days?
To learn from your mistakes. You have to have a blame-free environment. Meeting rooms can get tough in football but you have to accept mistakes and understand what you have to do to get better. Coach Stephenson drilled that into us – you needed to learn from your mistakes and be able to describe what you’d do to get better.
In our after-action meetings now at work I do the same thing. And I’ve coached high school kids now for 15 years. I love it. It’s my opportunity to get outside of work and give back to younger kids. The varsity head coach likes that I can teach them not just proper techniques, but how to mentally prepare for the game as well.
You were drafted by Cleveland – how did you end up in Pittsburgh afterwards?
I was cut by the Browns. I was under 6’2″ – it made it difficult to pass block as effectively. The day after my second child was born I got a call from my agent telling me Pittsburgh wanted to sign me. It fit my skillset. I was low to the ground and they were a run-first team. I was one of those guys who gave 150%. I wasn’t a linebacker type of guy that could run and cover kicks well but I could run block. Having Barry Foster to block for was great and all of the offensive linemen were great guys. They all worked with you – they were all mostly interested in improving the team by helping each other.
Who were some of the guys there that helped take you under their wing?
Justin Strelczyk helped me a lot. He and I had a great time. In the offseason we all worked hard. I remember our locker room was next to the the baseball visiting locker room. I got to meet Joe Girardi who introduced me to a lot of the All-Star game players – that was a thrill for me as I’m a a big baseball fan. I mean, I got to see guys like Joe Greene and Mel Blount which was very cool, but there was something extra special about meeting those baseball guys.
Tell me more about your time with Justin?
We just had fun together going out on the strip. And watching him bum cigarettes off of Myron Cope was always fun – that and just talking, hanging out and playing video games together.
What are some of the memories that stand out to you of your time in Pittsburgh?
I really enjoyed it there – I learned it was a business too. I didn’t realize how much at first. But despite that, the Rooneys were great to the players. The Christmas parties they threw – they invited our wives and children – gave us gifts and dinner. They made us feel special. I felt blessed like I was a first round pick – I cherish my time there.
I also remember the first game I played – it was versus the Bengals. I was on the extra point/field-goal team. We were about to kick a field goal but the guy across from me flinched – that was my friend Artie Smith – and made me jump offsides. It took us out of field goal range. I remember seeing Cowher screaming and yelling so much it made me want to go and sit on the Bengals sidelines!
A couple of plays later Greg Lloyd got an interception. I went over to Coach Stephenson and asked him how he liked how I set us up for the interception. He just looked at me and told me never to do that again.
Any other memories stand out?
I remember there was a guy there – Stubbs – who helped Tony Parisi and the equipment guys. One day he was messing around with Rod Woodson and they got tripped up and Woodson went down. He was hurt and on the ground for a while. I thought it was the end of Stubbs there, but Woodson ended up getting up after some time and was ok, fortunately.
And of course Dick LeBeau read The Night Before Christmas – that was a neat feeling at Christmas time watching that.
What happened after that first season in Pittsburgh?
I made it to the final cut then they brought in Tom Newberry and I became the odd man out. I played in the World League after that but soon after knew it was time to execute my backup plan. I did play in the Arena Bowl and do some Iron Man competitions still.
Any interest in coaching at a higher level?
I was going to put in for the Bill Walsh coaching scholarship the NFLPA had set up, but after 25 years at Caterpillar I can retire now in 2024.
I wouldn’t mind coaching at the college level at some point but I’m very content working with 10-to-12 year old kids. I get to mentor them – a lot come from broken and single parent homes. Working with them is more than just about putting on a jersey. I just love being able to pay it forward.
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