First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
Well what I’m proud of is that we were able to get Linwood Sexton into the Missouri Valley Conference Athletics Hall of Fame. Linwood was a terrific Black player in the 40’s – led the Missouri Valley in rushing for three years even though he wasn’t allowed to play in Tulsa and Kenyon due to racism. But we finally got him into the Hall of Fame six years or so ago.
How did that happen?
A bunch of us met at a Wichita State reunion and one of the guys did research on Linwood. We all decided then we needed to get him in.
Looking at your career – how did you end up in Pittsburgh?
Willie Jeffries was the coach there – he knew Bill Nunn. I was an All-American but I weighed just 210 pounds as an offensive guard. I had no expectations of playing in the NFL! But Willie called Bill and had them bring me and Lonnie Kinnell both in for a tryout and they signed us both.
I didn’t know it at the time, but the Steelers ran such a brutal camp. Full scrimmages two-to-three times a day! When guys got hurt I had to practice both ways – offense and defense. I gained weight when I first got there – up to 240 pounds – but with the humidity I lost so much weight I was back down to 228!
But – I was faster than the initial scoring reports. When I ran a 4.8 they were shocked. And I pulled as a guard at Wichita State almost every play, so they liked that about me.
How did you make the team at such a low weight and as an undrafted free agent?
That first week of camp Noll announced to the team that I was the surprise of camp. After that I got attention from the press. In drills I couldn’t beat many guys at my size. But in a real game when the defense didn’t know the play, I had an advantage and could be very effective. They moved me to center at first and had me snap the ball with my right hand. But I was left-handed and couldn’t snap or play center well at all.
At the start of camp the quarterbacks and rookies were there first. I think Mark Malone hated me because of how bad my snaps were at center! I think he thought I was trying to get him cut – I was just a horrible center!
They had me play right tackle, then left guard….they were just using me wherever they wanted.
My first play in camp though we lined up and I see Lambert across from me. It was a straight dive play to the three-hole. I was thinking “Oh shit, here we go.” Lambert didn’t know who I was – I was just a punk out there to him. But I gave him a head fake left that was just enough to get him to lean that way then went right and was able to pancake him.
In the film room after my back hurt so much from the pats on the back I got! Ilkin, Boures, Webster and Brown were all clapping for me.
How did Lambert take it?
Well, he’s like a player coach put there. After that he yelled that we needed to run the play again. I wasn’t using that head fake again! We stalemated but he tried to put the cast he had due to his broken wrist through my head! He made his point and made me pay for it.
And then preseason…
I remember the Hall of Fame game – we played New Orleans and it was a torrential downpour. There was no way we were going to pass the ball when I was in there in the second half with that rain. We were down by one score and they called eight straight trap plays and we drove down to score. I was never so tired in my life.
Later on in camp I remember going to dinner at St. Vincents and sitting down next to Terry Bradshaw. I pretended I didn’t know him – I didn’t want to be a starry-eyed rookie. Well he turned to me, introduced himself like I had no idea who he was and looked at my boots and asked if they were Tony Llamas? I told him they were, and he said he had six pairs of them in his car. He was a sponsor for them – he asked if I wanted one. Then he asked if I was doing anything later that night. I just got there and had no friends really yet. He told me to grab another rookie and they’d go out and grab a beer and see a movie. We went out and watched Beverly Hills Cop. People were yelling to Terry and he’d sign autographs and tell them they needed to get ours too – we were Steelers too! It was very cool to be treated like that.
Ten years later in Dallas I’m eating at this Mexican restaurant with a friend. Bradshaw had a ranch nearby and I told my friend this was supposedly his favorite restaurant. Well five minutes later he walks in. I went and introduced myself – said I know you met a lot of free agents that passed through Pittsburgh and told him the story of when we met. He looked at me and said “Damn, I am a nice guy!”
What happened after that season?
Well, I made it to the cut before the last cut then pulled a muscle in Dallas. I was put on IR and everyone was happy for me – they couldn’t cut guys on IR! After that I was on the practice squad for the year.
The next season though I quit football. I felt like I let Chuck down – he stayed after practice with me and worked with me. But that second season they brought in a coach to work strictly with the guards and centers – Bill Meyers – and he was a jackass to me. In front of everyone he said he had no idea why I was there – I was too small to play. I just said to myself he was right. I didn’t want to play for a guy like that and felt like he was probably right anyway.
Any other good stories?
Oh I have a few!
That year was the year Lambert did that ad for Kennywood – where he’s in pads acting like he’s afraid. Well, I’m going up the Three Rivers elevator – I walked in and Jack was there. Just me and him. Well, I wasn’t going to stay quiet the whole time. So I say “So, you like rollercoasters do you?” He turned to me and said “I never want to get on another f’in rollercoaster again!” in that voice of his. “I was on there for six God damn hours doing that God damn commercial!”
Another Lambert one. The nuns ran a lot of the stuff at St. Vincents. And it was close to Christmas. We’re all in our big group meeting – the whole team – when Lambert comes in. He tells us the nuns are doing a charity drive to get toys for kids, and we all got it pretty good as players. So he was going to put the team roster up in the locker room, and whoever doesn’t want to donate $500 he was going to scratch our names off that roster!
What did Chuck tell you when you said you were going to quit?
I told him I appreciated the opportunity. But you know Noll and the life’s work thing. He just said ok and he appreciated me telling him, and that was it. I think looking back on it it wasn’t the best time to make a decision like that – not when you’re really upset.
My uncle lived vicariously through me and was upset I quit. I didn’t even tell my parents at first. But then my uncle got me an agent and said I may be happier if I played closer to home in Kansas City. I got a tryout with them but they told me they just drafted three 6’5″ 300 pound guys – that they talked to Pittsburgh and knew I was a good player, but could I play any other position? I was just going to get hurt at my size.
After that I started working in the commercial furniture business which I’m still doing today. I know a lot of people think I was crazy – they’d give Ronnie Lott’s left finger to play! But I feel like I made the right decision for me.
Any other good memories?
Noll always liked a good laugh but never liked to be the butt of anyone’s joke. He would also talk about hitting opponents with “rising blows”. Well, one day someone – I don’t know who – found a picture of him getting blasted playing football – his feet were in the air. So they wrote “Rising blow?” with a sharpie on the picture and hung it up in the locker room. He saw it and laughed, then tore it down.
Also – more with Chuck. It was always considered a bit of brown-nosing to say hi to Chuck, but there were three guys – Kohrs, Goodman and one other guy – who Chuck would go out of his way to talk to most and ask about their families and that sort of thing. Well during that time the show My Three Sons was big – and you know the show’s theme song – it was memorable.
Well, every time those guys were talking to Chuck people would sing that song. Well, one day we’re on the plane and the three guys walk down and people start singing the song. Noll starts asking around – what that was all about. After he learned what was going on and heard it again on the plane, he stood up and announced to everyone “I heard that for the last time. No more!”
And there’s a good one with Gary Dunn. His nickname was Albert – but I thought that was his real name. Well, one day it’s just me and him in the locker room at Latrobe. I didn’t know much about Gary – just that he played college football in Florida. Now, I’m not good at small talk, but I thought I’d make small talk with him. “So Albert, you’re from Florida right?” He looked at me like I farted in his face and with a shit-ass look said “Yeeeah.” I thought wow, he must be in a bad mood. Well I found out later Albert wasn’t his name- and the nickname was for Fat Albert. Not something he appreciated – only his friends could get away with calling him that! Here I am this stupid-ass rookie calling him Albert!
Any last thoughts on your time there?
Webster, Ilkin, Wolfley – they were such good guys. I remember once my parents came to see me and came to a practice – parents didn’t really do that often but it was a walk-through. Anyway I asked Tunch if he wanted to say “Hi” to them after practice. He said “They’re here?” I told him they were sitting in the bleachers. In the middle of practice he starts waving his hands and yelling up to them “Hey Mr. and Mrs. Hull!” They were such good guys to be around.
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