First, can you tell us how you got into coaching and what you enjoy most about it?
Well, I got started right after I was released by the Steelers. I had a feeling I was going to be released – I was on IR and knew it could happen. When I was released I tried to figure out what to do next. I graduated with a business degree but I didn’t want to go into business – I wanted to stick with what I loved to do – football.
I decided to stay close to the game. I loved the idea of coaching and wanted to have an impact on people’s lives like many coaches impacted me.
Joe Gordon was the one who talked to me when I was released. He asked me then if I thought about getting into coaching. It was like confirmation for me.
After that I got a graduate assistant job at Arizona under Dick Tomey and got coaching job at my old JUCO school. I got my big break with a division one school when I was hired at Northern Arizona in 1990. Now I’m here at Oklahoma State and have been here since 2019.
Any coaching mentors and lessons that influenced you most from your playing days?
I have a number of influences in my life. My JUCO coach Kenny Giovando – he had a big impact on me as a young man. He taught me the intrinsic values of the game you needed to have – to play hard, do the right thing and live life right. He had the biggest impact on me.
Stepping back – how did your career start in Pittsburgh?
It actually started in 1985 – after my Senior year. They signed me as an undrafted free agent and I thought I did some good things that season. I made it to the final cut then the Raiders signed me to a tryout. I didn’t make that team but in 1987 the Steelers re-signed me. I was cut in camp but when the strike started they brought me back.
What made them reach out to you then, do you think?
They knew the strike was likely going to happen. I got the call before it happened and they asked me if I would be interested in coming in if the strike happened, and I said “Yeah.” I think they called a lot of guys before the strike to see who would be willing to come in.
A lot of the offensive line guys were guys that had been on the team at some point before. They knew us and had some familiarity with us which helped.
How did the coaches and players gel so quickly in such a short time before the first game?
We just all stayed ready. It was another shot for all of us to open some eyes and make a team. Some of its hung out – I stayed at the Allegheny Towers – I didn’t have a car so I stayed close so I could walk to practices. I did my job then went home and studied.
When we first got there they took us all to Johnstown to practice which helped too. We practiced on what I think was an old baseball field – then we came back to Pittsburgh.
Any memories stand out most of the players there?
The coolest thing was that first game in Atlanta. It was a strike game but it was a regular season game. Mike Webster had crossed over and for me and some of the other guys that was comforting. We looked up to him – he was the best center in the NFL. We were like “Oh, ok.” It legitimized things. Playing next to him was a dream come true. I have fond memories of that.
What did he help you with most?
He was always helpful with technique. I remember one time I didn’t give him enough help on a double-team and he got on me. I just said “Yes sir!” We had so much respect for him. He was such a great person and great player.
How did the Steelers coaches there help you to get acclimated?
Hal Hunter was awesome. I learned a lot from him. I still use some of the drills he used with us today. Ron Blackledge was too. Ron was more of the tight ends and tackles coach and Hal coached the center and guards.
I use a lot of those techniques – the pass pro and run techniques. Playing on your in-steps. Some of those drills and techniques like the push-and-pull were really new at that time.
What memories of your time there stand out most to you?
I remember when we played Atlanta we were taking a bus to the game. But the drivers didn’t show up – they were union guys too. So they stayed away in solidarity. We had to find new bus drivers right away.
When we got to the stadium in Atlanta, there were a lot of picketers – Falcons players there. Our bus came in right after the Falcons’ bus did and the striking players rushed the Falcons’ bus. Then they saw our bus and started rushing over to our bus. We stayed cool and got off the bus fast and got into the locker room without any incidents.
I also remember when they looked to have me try out at center during camp in Latrobe. Hal took some snaps from me and I snapped the ball wrong and really jammed his finger – almost broke it. He taped it up and we tried it again and I did it again! I thought I was going to be cut right there. Thankfully he showed me some grace.
It’s funny thinking back on it now but it wasn’t funny then. Hal certainly wasn’t laughing.
Did any of the Steelers strike guys give you grief when they came back?
The players were awesome. I loved Pittsburgh – it was a good fit for me. I was on IR by that time but the players – guys like Ilkin and Wolfley – they were nothing but helpful to all of us. They were good guys and tried to help you. No one gave us any grief – certainly nothing that I saw or experienced anyway. It was a great experience. It was a great organization and culture.
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