First off, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your time in Pittsburgh?
I graduated with an engineering degree at Colorado, so after I got cut from the Steelers I started working for a niche federal agency that designs and builds the roads on federal lands and the ones that lead into federal lands – for areas like national parks.
I’ve been doing that for 17 years and have been to a lot of cool places across the Western U.S. My office is close to where I grew up actually.
I’ve worked at Yosemite, Lake Mead, Mesa Verde …it’s all an extension of my engineering degree and I just developed my career since I was cut.
Was the post-NFL transition difficult?
I went to work right after I got cut so it wasn’t as difficult. I do miss it, but I was always a true student athlete! So, it wasn’t that big of a deal making that transition. I miss the comradery more than I miss the games – I’m sure you hear that a lot. For 10-to-15 years I still had dreams of playing football, so maybe I did miss it more than I realized! But I made the transition and moved on.
Were you surprised the Steelers drafted you?
I was totally surprised! I had no idea they had any interest in me.
I went to the All-Star games and interviewed with a number of teams but not the Steelers. The Jets showed the most interest in me – Bill Parcells sent me a letter telling me I was a priority free agent for them.
At the beginning of the sixth round the Steelers called and told me they were interested in taking me. They had two picks in the sixth round. I was excited – they told me they wanted to move me to linebacker – I played defensive line in college. That sounded good to me – but then they took Chris Fuamatu-Ma’afala and I thought they wouldn’t take me after that. Cincinnati called then and told me they wanted me to be a defensive lineman.
But then the next thing I knew, I saw my name running across the screen saying the Steelers drafted me! Then the Steelers called me – Cowher talked to me first, then I moved down the line to Jim Haslett who was the defensive coordinator, then Mike Archer, the linebackers coach. We chatted a bit and they told me again they wanted me to play linebacker.
Were you happy about that transition?
I played linebacker in high school and wanted to play linebacker in college. So I was excited. It’s just a difficult transition to make – especially dropping back into coverage. I figured it out by year two but by then it was too late.
Did anyone take you under their wing and help you with that transition?
Not really! They had a lot of Colorado guys there then – Kordell, Steed, Charles Johnson who just passed away recently, sadly…But you’re kind of on your own.
I remember speaking to Chris Hudson – he played for the Jaguars – but he told me it was so competitive trying to make a team, and that one player actually told him the wrong coverage to try to get him in trouble in practice.
The Steelers had a better culture than that though. Mike Vrabel – he probably helped me the most of everyone besides the coaches. I’m not surprised he’s a head coach now- he’s a good guy and loved the game. He never made mistakes.
What helped you to make the positional transition the most?
Just the experience of being there. I played in all the preseason games and ended up on the practice squad. It just took time to get that familiarity.
I talked to Koy Detmer once after we played the Eagles and he told me it just takes time. But unfortunately you don’t have a lot of time. In my case they drafted another linebacker the next year and that was it.
Any moments stand out most to you from your time there?
One time in practice I got run over by a running back. I got so mad – the next play they ran an iso on me and I blew it up. Everyone cheered! I think that play bought me some time there.
Dermontti Dawson was incredible. Of all the players – and they had some great ones there – he was the best athlete, and it wasn’t even close. He was 300 pounds and would pull and outrun Jerome Bettis. I remember once in practice we were doing a goal line walk-through – we were all in helmets and shells. The defensive line crowded the center – one on each side. Well, he snapped the ball, jumped over the linemen and got to me before I could even take a step.
He was the best guy off the field too. Every morning he’d walk into the locker room and yell “Good morning my brothers!” He was my favorite guy there.
Any other of the players there stand out?
It was a good locker room. The linebacker room was fun – Vrabel was always cracking jokes. It was just a fun group to be around. The defensive backs used to play mind games – they’d work on locks to see how you’d open them up the fastest and messed around with those.
Justin Strelczyk – I got to hang with him at Latrobe. He was such a nice guy – it was such a shame what happened to him. He would chat with me – I used to pass rush against him in practice. He’d give me tips and ideas to help me.
Do you watch the NFL today – any thoughts on the way the game has changed?
I do watch the NFL now – I stayed away from it for a while. Over the last 10 years I got more involved with Colorado as well. With NIL and the transfer portal, the college game has changed a lot and they need to fix that. I think it’s hurt the game.
The NFL is trying to protect players more and I like that. But Tom Brady said it even – the defensive players today, it’s hard for them to play now. I can’t imagine not being able to tackle a guy the way we used to. I never got a concussion when I played – if you do it the right way you don’t get hurt. In college I remember taking a Wyoming quarterback by his shoulder pads and throwing him down on his head. I’d get ejected for that hit today!
They just need more balance – I think they’ve taken it too far.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
