First, tell me about your post-NFL career and how you got started – it’s a fascinating career?
I knew even in college that I wanted to pursue a legal career. After the NFL I went to law school at Fordham.
After law school I became a prosecutor with the Manhattan D.A.’s office. I always had a childhood dream of serving in the military as well. So, I joined the Army Reserves in ’97 – I planned to do a few years in the reserve to feel like I did what I wanted to do for the military. Then 9-11 happened.
How did that impact you?
It was the most significant event in my life. It implicated my future path – I never would have gone down my following path if it hadn’t happened.
I like many people had several friends who were killed – a good friend of mine, Sean Lynch, who I saw just a few days before who worked at Cantor Fitzgerald was killed. There are countless stories like that of people who lost friends and family.
So after eight months of intense training, I headed out for Afghanistan as a JAG attorney and helped create an Afghan National Army and laid plans for when and where to deploy troops, and helped establish a central authority that would prevent warlords from spinning out of control.
I was honored to be able to go and serve. and try cases against insurgents and terrorists. The biggest case I worked on was Hassan Akbar, who turned on his own troops – killed his own troops. It was a difficult case to go through. As a JAG, I felt that this was the most important thing I could do for the war effort.
Stepping back and in talking about your football career, how did you find yourself in Pittsburgh after having been drafted by Kansas City?
I was drafted by Kansas City and signed to a two-year deal. My first year I could have been left unprotected as a Plan B free agent but I had a good first year so they protected me that first year. My second season I was left unprotected and was able to negotiate with other teams, and it worked out that I could sign with the Steelers.
Why Pittsburgh?
They had a great staff – Noll, Fox, Valesente – I really liked Valesente – he was a good coach and good person. I don’t know why they decided to bring me in – teams always want to improve. I had a good rookie year in Kansas City – I led the team in special team tackles – I think they saw me as a good backup.
I watched Jerry Olsavsky – I saw myself as that same type of player. A solid backup who did most of his heavy lifting on special teams – but a good backup linebacker as well.
Who helped you learn the ropes in Pittsburgh – on and off the field?
Jerry O. – he was the closest thing to a confidant. I was a veteran player playing in the same position. We were both backup linebackers so spent a lot of time together. He’s a great guy – he gave me a heads-up on how things were. He was Pittsburgh – from Pitt to the Steelers – he exemplified Pittsburgh.
How did he help?
He was just very helpful in describing the way Chuck Noll did things. What attitudes were received well and were not. He was a wealth of information – especially institutional knowledge on the organization. He’s a smart guy – he kept me thinking about the right things. It wasn’t hard to be fair – I wanted to work hard and make the team, so he was preaching to the choir. We were going up against each other in essence – both being backups at the same position. That can make it hard but he had no problem being open and sharing what he knew.
Anyone else help you there?
The linebacker corps was impressive. Lloyd, Nickerson, Hinkle, Williams – they were all studs.
Lloyd was such an impressive human being. His intensity and work ethic were amazing, He wasn’t an overly expressive guy – anything but – but his intensity made you want to live up to that work ethic. He made you want to earn the respect of he and the other guys.
He was honest and I appreciated that – he would let you know if you were good or not good. He told you what he thought of you and I’ve carried that with me.
Any on-field action and plays that stand out to you of your time in Pittsburgh?
One is my one-and-only kickoff return in the NFL! I tell my kids that their dad was a kickoff return specialist! I recovered a surprise onside kick when we played Cincinnati – I’m officially in the books for one return for zero yards.
I loved playing on special teams. I wasn’t a prototype linebacker – I wasn’t as big as most linebackers. But I was fast and I had some quickness, and that helped me. My size gave me an advantage I felt over bigger, slower linebackers when it came to special teams. I approached it as my niche. Every player has to figure out what they are good at and exploit that. That’s what I did with special teams.
Any good off-field stories to share?
Neil O’Donnell was a fun quarterback, We were both New Jersey guys – of course he was the starting quarterback and I was at the bottom of the totem pole there. In the offseason he told me he had some friends coming in and they were all going to go to a concert together. He had a really nice sports car and I drove a very practical Nissan four-door. So he asked if we could switch cars for the weekend so he could have his friends pile in to my car to and from the concert.
I thought that sounded great – I got to drive in his sports car. I was afraid to drive it much and get it beat up – I drove it to the store and back and even filled it up with gas for him. I don’t know what I was thinking – why I thought my car wouldn’t come back smelling like a bunch of guys who went to a concert. I think someone threw up in the back. Looking back on it, that was definitely a rookie mistake!
Any other good ones?
Mike Mularkey was a great guy. I knew I was on the bubble – I had already been released once and brought back the following week after someone got hurt and they needed to bring in someone. I was told I might be released again and was talking to Mike about it. He told me that Barry Foster told him he wasn’t going to play that week – Barry didn’t tell anyone yet but he told Mike he was hurt and wasn’t going to be able to play.
I asked Mike if he would please tell the coaches that so they wouldn’t have to release me. He did – and because of that I wasn’t cut. I really appreciated that.
Another good one was at the end of camp. I thought I had a really good camp – I felt I had made the team. We were all in the locker room after the last practice – that’s when everyone stands around and waits for the turk to come by and tap you on the shoulder and tell you the coaches wanted to see you – and bring your playbook!
Well, I get a tap on my shoulder – I think they had 20-year old kids who helped out there do their turk work. He told me the coaches wanted to see me – and to bring my playbook. I was devastated, I walked across the locker room and said my goodbyes to some of the guys and was just about to the coach’s office when the kid ran back and told me to stop – that he got me mixed up with someone else. I think I hugged him more than anyone else in my entire life.
It’s a great moment looking back on it – it’s fun to think about how that happened.
Any big takeaways from your time there?
I just love that I got to play for Chuck Noll, Dave Brazil, Bob Valesente…Joe Greene and Dick Hoak. Those guys were so impressive – I learned so much from them. Looking back at the program Chuck Noll created and led there – it was such an honor to be a part of it.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
