First, I know you just went back and finished your degree at Tuskegee. What made you decide to do so?
I always wanted to do it. I speak to the kids- speak to my kids – explaining the importance of a degree. I was a late round pick out of Tuskegee and there’s a lot that needs to happen to make you able to get drafted by an NFL team. It takes a lot to get there – I didn’t have the chance to finish getting my degree before I was drafted.
But, I was tired of telling people I attended Tuskegee instead of saying I graduated from Tuskegee. And I had too much competition once I got to the NFL to be able to go back and spend time getting my degree.
Were you surprised to be drafted by Denver?
Dick LeBeau with Huggins came down to see me at Tuskegee. I had a torn PCL in my right knee but still ran a 4.5 on grass. He told me that he had to give me a higher 40 time because no one would believe him and he didn’t want anyone thinking they missed me in the scouting process!
My coach told me not to go out the night before – that they would try to wake me up early to see if I went out partying the night before! Those two helped discover me – they put me on the map.
But you ended up in Pittsburgh years later…how?
I was traded to Pittsburgh. I always loved the Steelers – I’m cousins with Frenchy Fuqua – we grew up together though he’s older than I am. Going to the NFL then to Pittsburgh – it was always a dream – so it was unreal when it happened.
I think in the 70’s and 80’s the Steelers and Broncos were the linebacker hubs of the NFL. Pittsburgh had Cole, Merriweather, Hinkle, Lloyd, Nickerson – we’d all go out together on the town for fellowship and laughs. We were a family there.
I think when Denver lost the Super Bowl I was the second leading tackler for the team, coming off the bench. I was in line to be the starter. But after the Super Bowl they felt they were overpowered – I was 215 pounds – I was agile, strong and hostile. But I think they wanted a bigger linebacker.
What was your role when you got to Pittsburgh?
Dungy was great – I had the same role. He rotated me with the other linebackers and I played some in the nickel. Dungy had a concept where he’d play me with Merriweather or have me play in place of him to keep offenses off balance.
When we played the Steelers in ’84 I also remember covering Stallworth one-on-one. I knew they also scouted me a lot in college. So I think all of those things had something to do with why they traded for me.
I had a better shot there to play in Pittsburgh – Denver held me back some. In Pittsburgh I was able to play, but then I got hurt against San Francisco in my other knee and the strike hit.
What was the atmosphere for you in Pittsburgh? What was it like?
Merriweather and I came out the same year so we knew each other. He told me what gospel radio station to listen to. It was a family-oriented team – Ilkin, Webster – they were all approachable. You could talk to anyone – that’s why I enjoyed it so much there.
When Chuck Noll spoke, I don’t care how you were feeling. I was ready to make history for the Steelers when he spoke. I wish I could have taped some of those speeches. I was always ready to light someone up at any cost. If I had to, I’d put myself in the hospital, wake up, and ask if I got the guy!
Night Train Lane once told me something at a Black College All Star Game. He told me the NFL can teach you a lot of things, but it can’t teach you how to hit. So if you ever forget what to do on a play, just hit someone. They’ll always find a place for guys like that!
How were Denver and Pittsburgh different?
In Denver they did more technique stuff. You would do 18 plays of seven-on-sevens, then 18 plays of nine-on-six, then 18 of seven-on-six. Then special teams and practice would be over. I kept my mouthpiece in my sleeve – we never hit each other.
So when I got to Pittsburgh, I remember one of the first practices Bubby rolled out and Terry Long popped out to block. I knew it would take two-and-a-half steps to get to Bubby and got to him before Long could block me and just touched Bubby.
Noll started yelling at me – he wanted to run the play again – he wanted to see how the play would work against the team we were playing next week and was mad I broke the play up and that I didn’t hit Bubby.
Robin Cole laughed – he told me I better go at full speed again – that I messed up and didn’t hit Bubby. Joe Greene came up to me with a cigar in his mouth and told me I better go get them now or they’ll think I’m a punk! Everybody was pissed that I let up on Bubby. I knew if hit Bubby I would have knocked him out! But Chuck wanted us to practice like we’d play so we’d be ready for games – to practice violently like the way we play on gamedays.
Any memories stand out to you of your time there?
I remember seven-on-sevens early on. The first time I had to cover Abercrombie out of the backfield and I think I picked it off.
Then Chuck told me he wanted to see if I could cover Dwight Stone. Well Dwight did a down, out and up and went 40 yards downfield. I had to go get him. He went right by me – I don’t think he caught it but man, he got by me!
I also remember the old Pittsburgh candy joke! Mr. Goodbar was on the corner of 5th Avenue and Clark Avenue when Mrs. Hershey came by and he showed her his Milky Way! She let out a Snicker and soon they had some Sugar Babies!
Ha – any other good me memories?
Jed Hughes was our linebackers coach and he’d practice cutting on turf. It was very different than the grass in Denver. I told him I didn’t want to practice cut blocks on turf during the week! But we practiced at game-tempo. I wore more pads in practice than in games!
What happened after that ’87 season?
I was traded to Indianapolis. My other knee was hurt and I think Pittsburgh felt I wasn’t durable enough to be reliable. That I wouldn’t last. I made some good plays on special teams – was the MVP on special teams a couple of weeks – and made some plays during games. But it wasn’t enough. I guess it’s better to have loved and lost than to not have loved at all!
We all bonded in Pittsburgh. I stayed near the Clark Building- I still have my picture of us at Kennywood. I loved that style of family and play in Pittsburgh. We were all physical – you had to beat us
So what’s the plan now?
I’m here on campus now and tell the kids here that it’s more about what’s between their ears. Anyone can run and jump. But it’s more about the thought process – adjusting and adapting to what’s happening around you.
I’m more introverted now. I worry the kids will feed off everything I say and it can be overwhelming. Due to concussions I lose my train of thought – my focus sometimes. My mind wanders more than it should. I’ve gotten in my car a couple of times and forgotten where I was going. I don’t want the kids I speak to thinking I’m a dumb jock. My dream was always to have my own name on a church I built. I got my degree in construction science. I wanted to build my own legacy.
It’s just important that you know if guys don’t want to talk to you, it’s not about you. They may just not feel comfortable. Concussion issues make it hard to remember things and keep your focus. Sometimes the soup isn’t good! The fridge don’t work! You know what I mean! But it’s great you’re talking to all of us that you can – I really enjoyed it!
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
