First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your NFL time?
I got married to my lovely wife Robin and had three boys. They all played football through the collegiate level. One graduated from Appalachian State where I played and two played at NC State – one of those transferred to South Carolina.
What did you do after football?
After football I still had a love for the game and took up coaching. I coached my kids’ Pop Warner teams until they grew out of it then went on to coach in high school for seven years.
As for work – I was in retail for a few years then I started my own residential and commercial cleaning business. After 25 years I changed careers and have recently become a home inspector.
Who helped shape the way you coached?
My first influence was my high school coach. I didn’t consider college – I was just playing ball and having fun. He asked me what I planned to do after high school – I just figured I’d work in the plant like everyone else did. I was a small town kid.
But he told me I had the talent to play at the next level. He got me a tutor and I ended up playing in college. He was a big mentor for me. A lot of kids don’t have mentors like that – I came from a single parent household and didn’t have a father-figure growing up. He was my first big male influence. He taught me lessons in life that went beyond football.
After that?
At the college level Coach Loren Johnson – he was big on fundamentals. Those carried over to the pro level.
When I got to the Steelers of course I was with Joe Greene for a little while. He emphasized fundamentals as well and using violent hands and good technique. It was any person’s dream to play for him.
What I liked about Coach Greene was that he demonstrated things – I learned that from him. If as a coach I couldn’t do the drill the kids didn’t believe it. He got in the trenches and showed me how to do things. How to gain leverage and use my hands. He did the drills with me. When I coached I wore cleats and gloves so I could be sure to show kids how to do it.
How did you end up with the Steelers after college?
I started off in the 49ers camp but was released. My agent called and told me the Steelers wanted to pick me up. The crazy thing was I played for the Steelers Pop Warner team so it was a dream come true to play for them.
That was the strike season – who helped mentor you when you got there – and how?
I was there when the vets got back – some stayed during the strike too. They all taught you how to be a pro. They influenced you on how to keep your nose clean and stay focused – but to have a good time doing it. Gerald Williams and Earnest Jackson both helped me a lot.
What was the feeling like to get out on that field the first time during a game?
I worked my butt off and I guess Joe noticed me – he told me I had talent and that I was going to get playing time. The first time running out of that tunnel and hearing your name called – words can’t describe it. I never would have believed that could happen – it was a dream come true. Just being able to wear that jersey – what it represented. It was surreal.
When I think back on it now – playing on a pro team – words can’t describe how proud you feel being able to play at that level.
Having played at a smaller school, how hard was that adjustment to the NFL for you?
My pre-game prep – I had to bring that to another level. The game was so much faster. The athletes were just bigger, stronger and faster than college players.
The technique part – I was a good technician so I was good there. But the speed of the game was so much faster. If you didn’t know the playbook it was over for you. If you stopped to think about the play on the field it was too late – the play was over. You have to know enough to be able to just react. Those were 300-plus linemen who ran fast and had good technique. It was an adjustment for me but once I got the plays down and understood my responsibilities the game slowed down for me.
What memories stand out most to you of your time there?
At Appalachian State we used to travel everywhere by bus. Everything was pretty close – within a couple of hours.
But in the pros you’d get a police escort to the tarmac, then stop off the bus on to the plane. That was the first time I ever experienced anything like that. Then there was food on the plane and we’d all just be chilling together. Then when you landed you got on another bus with another police escort to the hotel where there were fans going crazy and you had the top two floors booked just for the team. It was like being a celebrity.
Then after the game you got back on the bus and when you got off to walk to the plane, there was a big container filled with bags for the players – bags of beer! It was great! They had cigars for the players too and food. It was just a crazy experience to come from a small town and small school to experience that first-class stuff.
My first sack – it was against Atlanta – an outside edge rush and I sacked Jeff Van Raaphorst.
Any funny memories stand out?
Really just Gerald Williams – he would joke with me all the time. I was a quiet guy – I didn’t talk a lot. He would come to to me and ask me why I was being so quiet and joke with me all the time.
What do you think of the way the game has changed since you played?
Well, they’re taking the head out of the game – the rules have changed. The hitting and tackling are different – it’s like a rugby style of playing now. When we played we would run through backs with our shoulders – now it’s all about using your hands more.
They’ve taken a lot of the physicality out of the game. Back then running backs and fullbacks would chop block the crap out of us – we’d get lower body injuries all the time. Now they are protecting players more – but it has taken the physicality out of the game.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
