First off, can you let mw know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I worked for AT&T for 33 years as a sales and marketing exec before I retired. I coached high school football as well. I coached in Houston for four years – we went to three state championships and won two of them. That was the same high school where Gary Kubiak played quarterback.
After that I moved to Georgia and coached my two younger sons – my older son is 34 and was the top player in Texas at his position at the time. The other two I coached played college football. I also do some strength and training coaching for kids and work as a substitute teacher.
Did any of the coaches you played for help shape the way you coached – how so?
I had great high school coaches in DuBois, Pa. I grew up 100 miles Northeast of Pittsburgh and had a great Junior coach and a great one as a Senior. I went to college at IUP and our head coach then was George Chump. He was the quarterback coach at Ohio State and coached in Tampa Bay – he was also a legendary high school coach in Pittsburgh.
And of course with the Steelers, paying for Chuck Noll was unbelievable. Just sitting in meetings and in practices with him – and with Jon Kolb.
What did they show you?
I learned to do whatever it takes – to never give up. That stayed with me through business as well. There’s a lot that’s out of your control – just to work hard and impact what you can. That stayed with me the most.
What brought you to the Steelers?
I played at IUP and many of the Rooneys went to school there. So there was that connection. After my Senior year I signed with the Steelers as an undrafted free agent. I grew up watching the Steelers of course and idolized Jack Lambert. I played middle linebacker in high school and wore his number in college. To be there in camp and in the huddle with him was surreal.
How did you maintain your composure being there in the huddle for the first time with a guy you idolized?
You just live in the moment and take it in. It’s funny because I even taped my armpads like he did when I was in high school!
Any players or coaches take you under their wing when you got there?
In mini-camp and in the Summer, I worked out with Ilkin, Wolfley and Courson. Ben Lawrence was another player there then and he and I worked out with Courson at the local gym before we even signed with the team.
Those guys showed you how to work hard – that work ethic. We had to run the stadium steps up and back all the way around the stadium. It was brutal.
Was the adjustment to the NFL hard?
I benched 520 then and was one of the stronger guys there. I was a defensive end there in their 3-4 scheme and I played in the same scheme in college so it wasn’t difficult. The terminology was different but that was about it.
In the ’84 Oklahoma drills they had me go one-on-one with Larry Brown – he was an All-Pro tackle. I had three reps with him and won one, lost one and we had one draw. That stuck out to me – I ended up being the last defensive lineman cut in that ’84 camp.
Any good memories that stand out to you of your time in Pittsburgh?
One on the field. I remember when we played the Rams. Charles White was the leading rusher that season and I forced a fumble against him. I think that was his only fumble that season.
Also at St. Vincents – we stayed in the dorms and the bathrooms were at the end of the hall. Well I remember going to the bathroom and blowing the door open when I walked in – then all of the sudden it flies back at me and out from behind it walked Jack Lambert. He was not happy! That’s when they had those toilets right behind the door!
Any other fun off-the-field memories and friends you made there?
That ’87 team – I have lifelong friends from that team. Dan Reeder – his son played for the Chargers and he has another one in college. I was also friends with Rich Erenberg and Preston Gothard from that ’84 team. And Steve Morris – he was a running back there then. We’d all go on fishing trips together.
In ’87 I took some of those guys when we were in Johnstown to IUP. It was 30 miles away – me, Blankenship, Reeder….we went to some bars there and watched all the college kids look at us and talk about the Steelers being in town.
I also became good friends with John Lott – when he coached at the University of Houston I was friends with the receivers coach there and would work out in the gym with him.
How did the organization get the team to gel and play so closely with so many different people coming together in such a short period of time?
Once you play you can always play. Most already had some time in the NFL – many came from the ’86 team or were in camp. Some of the older guys also crossed the line like Webster and Peterson.
They kept it simple and most of the guys had played for the Steelers before at some point. I think that was intentional – they knew the schemes.
Do you watch the NFL today – and the Steelers?
Guys really are bigger, faster and stronger. It’s a different game today. The rules protecting the quarterbacks though are ridiculous.
That ’87 team had great comradery – I made so many friends that I still have today. Being able to come back and play one more time was great.
What did your employer say about coming back to play in ’87?
I had a good job at Southwestern Bell – to be able to go back and play again was special. They let me take time off – they were excited for me and behind me all the way. They gave me and Ben Lawrence who was there with me at Southwestern Bell both a leave of absence to play.
It’s funny. Years later – in the late 80’s – I was out with Ed Herman at that bar Froggy’s. Ed was Al Hermann’s son – Al was the Steelers photographer for those 70’s Steelers teams. Well, Ed was BS’ing with a BLESTO scout Tom Averill and I was sitting behind them. Well, Ed asks him if he remembers some a guy named Bret Shugarts that played for IUP. The scout said “Yeah – he was a tough S.O.B. A real fighter! We thought he was signing with the Browns. I thought he could make it in the NFL.”
That was fun to hear!
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
