First, what’s next for you – still looking at coaching?
It’s kind of up in the air. I bagged out of the media work this year – I didn’t want to be flying around with the Covid virus going on. So I’ve been doing nothing really. It’s been kind of nice – now I can help my wife with our move and had a part in buying our new house for a change!
In the future, if it’s the right situation I could see myself getting back into coaching – or back in the media again if not.
Who were some of the guys that shaped the way you approach coaching – and how so?
Going way way back, my first year of playing football was in 1966. I played in Virginia Beach for Princess Anne Plaza – they were the Plaza Packers. Ron Meeks was the head coach – he was married with a son and was a great coach for a first time player like me. He made the game fun – he was encouraging and made it a positive experience. We won the championship that year – so did the Green Bay Packers.
After that year I just knew immediately that football was what I wanted to do – to play and then coach. I never deviated from that. I loved the game and had great success early on that made it a positive experience.
Who helped after that?
I played in high school and college and had a lot of good coaches. Ernie Zampese was a defensive guru then – he turned down head coaching opportunities because he wanted to remain a teacher – he didn’t want to be a head coach.
In 1979 I took my first coaching job under Sid Gilman. I was his defensive coordinator. He taught me about systems. Recognition – the art of teaching systems to players – offensive and defensive. He was one of the most innovative coaches in football. On his staff there were guys like Herm Edwards and Mike Solari.
I coached in college until I got my first NFL job coaching for the Steelers in 1989 – for Chuck Noll.
What did you learn from Chuck?
Chuck was the epitome if a teacher. He was about great fundamentals and was always very even keeled. He had no peaks or valleys. I remember my first game with the Steelers at Three Rivers – we lost to the Browns 51-0. And not to take anything away from Cleveland, but they weren’t a great team. We had seven turnovers – Cleveland didn’t even get 300 yards of offense but we were still blown out.
The next week we got blown out by a very good offensive team in Cincinnati. Sam Wyche was way ahead of his time.
So that was two games we were blown out. The city was going crazy but Chuck kept an even keel and we ended up making the playoffs and were one game away from the championship game, where we would have played Cleveland again. Watching Chuck manage all of that was a great lesson. There was an article in the Post-Gazette where a player was hiding his face after those first two games – the paper wrote about it. Chuck called him out in practice and told him that’s not how we handle things.
What made you decide to take the Steelers coaching job?
I was coaching at Pitt and there was turnover there. Chuck had me come in – I interviewed twice. I actually had to ask Sal Sunseri how to get to Three Rivers – I didn’t know the city well – Pitt had its own stadium.
Chuck asked me what my coaching goals were in the interview. I told him I wanted to be a defensive coordinator – that I didn’t want to be a head coach. He said “What? Why not?” I told him everything I saw showed me that I couldn’t do the things I liked to do – working with and teaching players – if I was a head coach. In college there was so much a head coach had to do that was wasn’t about football. He told me that wasn’t the case in the NFL. That was profound for me – that stayed with me.
Did he talk to you about what he wanted from you as his defensive backs coach?
He was a great football mind – there was plenty of discussion on what he was looking for. There was one thing he stressed that I hear few coaches talk about or teach- vision. It’s a critical fundamental of any position – particularly of defensive backs. You have to be able to look not only at the receiver, but at the quarterback too. To be able to combine movements of both to get the best read on a play. He taught me and players how to do that. The best players an do that. The best horses run without blinders – players need to do that too. You have to be able to see everything in front of you to read plays. That’s how the best players master their position and craft. You have to be able to focus on everything.
Rod Rust was the defensive coordinator then. Chuck said that Rod couldn’t make the three-deep zone we ran any more complicated. I think he was dogging him a little. We ran it like Seattle runs its three-deep zone now. It’s based on protection tendencies – where players are lined up in formation. You can only have five eligible players – you may have three strong and two weak, four and one flow or flare, three weak and two strong…you can do the math. But the idea is that you played man and zone depending on those formations. The formations give you a heads up on the protections. It’s complicated, but that’s what we ran.
Any of the coaches or players you worked with stand out to you?
Joe Greene was an idol of mine – and he was a young defensive line coach then. He was a big man but very humble – very quiet.
The last playoff game we lost to Denver – our plane broke down so we were stuck and we all got off the plane. Joe and I decided to go get something to eat in the terminal. There was a young couple there – they obviously partook of some game celebrations. They yelled “Mean Joe! Can we get your autograph Mean Joe!” when they saw us. Joe told them he’d get them on the way back. They yelled again “Come on Joe! Come on!”. Joe, in his deep voice, looked at them and said “I said when I’m coming back!” Both of them had eyes like saucers. It wasn’t in a loud voice – but that tone and that look he had…I think they knew then it was time to leave him alone!
Another good Joe Greene story. Back in those days we normally did a circular huddle. But Rod wanted to move to a cathedral huddle – it was two lines of players instead of the circle. Joe told Rod he didn’t like that idea. He told Rod he wanted to be able to look in every player’s eyes and he couldn’t do that in a cathedral huddle. Joe used to send guys off the field as a player if he didn’t like the way they looked in the huddle. Coaches would ask why players were coming off and they’d tell them that Joe told them to leave!
I imagine Lambert did some of the same things…
Chuck told me a good story about Jack Lambert. In the 70’s it was meat and potatoes before every game – that was the meal. Then they started to get healthy. One of the big things then was sunflower seeds. They had those out for lunch. Well as Chuck told it one day Jack came down with a cup and asked Chuck if he could come in. When Chuck said yes he walked into Chuck’s office and threw the cup full of sunflower seed on Chuck’s desk. He told Chuck “This is what I had for lunch. What did you have Chuck?” That was Jack’s way of saying he wanted to get back to the meat and potatoes for the pre-game meal!
Did you know Chuck was going to retire in ’91?
Well, not many people know this, but I actually interviewed for the job when he retired. Dan was the guy then and I always got along well with the Rooneys.
Fast-forward to the 2011 playoff game where I was the head coach and we beat Pittsburgh in overtime. The Steelers were 12-4 and we were 8-8. It was a sickening defeat for Pittsburgh I knew. But the classiest thing I ever saw was after that heartbreaking loss, Dan and Art came into the Denver locker room to congratulate me. It was off-the-charts class.
Why do you think you didn’t get the job in Pittsburgh?
Honestly, in my own mind I didn’t think I was ready then. What I tell people now is – it’s not about getting any head coaching job, it’s about getting the right one. It was my own fault – I didn’t think I was ready and I’m sure it showed. I only coached in the NFL for three years then. It came down to Cowher and Wannstedt and of course Cowher got the job and became a Hall of Fame coach.
Circling back – did you have any idea Coach Noll was looking to retire?
Maybe it’s out of turn to say but there wasn’t a lot of success in the seasons before he retired. George Stewart and I got there the same year and there had been some changes to the team – and I think some of those may have come from above. I think Chuck was at that stage that he didn’t want to go through more of that again. But no, we didn’t get any heads up.
Like after every season, he gave us two weeks off and we all went on vacation. I was actually at my in-laws in Illinois when he called me personally to tell me he was retiring. He called all of us – that’s how he was. He was such a classy person. And if you had a hobby and told him about it, he was the guy who, the next time you saw him, would tell you more about the hobby than you could!
Any players you worked with that stand out most to you?
I had some great players – Woodson, Delton Hall, Everett, Carnell Lake. Lake was a linebacker and running back before he was drafted – we had to teach him how to play defensive back. But he was such a smart kid. He worked like you couldn’t believe to learn the position. Players like that make you a better coach.
Any thoughts on the way the NFL has changed today – especially from the point of view of a defensive backs coach?
Steve Young and I were having this conversation not too long ago. It’s easier today as a quarterback than it was back then. If you decided then as an offensive coordinator to call a pass play instead of running the ball, you were responsible for risking getting your quarterback smashed. The quarterback was fair game if you elected not to run. If he got hit that was your fault.
The same with throwing to receivers over the middle. If you threw over the middle and the receiver got clocked that was on you. Now – it’s all blamed on the defense. When a wide receiver got blown up over the middle they didn’t glare at the defense – they glared at the quarterback or at the coach on the sidelines.
For the safety of the game I get it. But I think that not every case of players having CTE or suffering after football can be blamed on the physical nature of the game. I knew every guy they talked about in the Concussion movie – every one. I can tell you though that I know many solid people that struggled with the adjustment to life after playing in the NFL. It’s just like the military – some struggle dealing with the adjustment – not playing the sport they loved and being around the people they were close to for years anymore.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
