First, can you let us know what you got involved with after your time in the NFL?
Well, as you know I got into the TV business working mostly with CBS and CBS radio as well, doing NFL games, the Tour de France, the Olympics… really interesting things, I had a good time doing it.
How did you get involved in that?
The producer at NBC then was Terry O’Neill. He was a big football fan and knew talent when he saw it! He suggested that I do some sideline reporting and commenting on games. I did that for 13 to 14 years.
Frenchy was a piece of work. We were a conservative team in New York. When I was in Pittsburgh there was a function after practice – and in comes Frenchy with fur coat, suit, scarf and hat – then I see goldfish in his shoes. I thought I was hallucinating! What kind of team did I get on!
Was getting started in the NFL difficult for you?
Absolutely. I played baseball in the Red Sox’ farm system but I couldn’t hit slider and barely a fastball -there was no way I was making it to the major leagues! I was floundering in places like Waterloo, Iowa and Winston-Salem, North Carolina. I grew up in Brooklyn – those places were so different to me. It was an eye-opener. I’d play night games in stadiums with 4,000 people maximum and that would be the event of the week there. It all had an enchanting quality to it, really. It wasn’t the Steeler, the Jets, or the Yankees or Mets – but it was fun.
So what happened after baseball?
I got bounced around in the minor leagues, then had some calls to play football from the Jets and Dolphins after tryouts. The Jets I guess liked what they saw and signed me to the taxi squad. I was activated for three games – and those were the three I needed to be able to earn a Super Bowl ring that year when we won in ’69. What a year that was – the Jets, Yankees – everyone one that year. It was nirvana in New York!
How did you end up in Pittsburgh later on?
Here’s how Pittsburgh worked. I was with the Jets for a while then was released. The Rooneys, being a nice Irish family, picked me up off of waivers and signed me as a free agent. The Steelers were just coming into their own then. I still think they were the best team I ever saw in pro football. I know some argue that, but they had the best talent across the team, a great coach in Chuck Noll who didn’t mess around- and my secondary coach Bud Carson was so knowledgeable as well.
How did the other players take you in and show you the ropes of the team and city?
I really liked those guys on the team. There wore mere black than white players, which was unusual then. And me, a white player from an Ivy League school – they’d joke around and ask me if I was lost- if I was supposed to be there! But they couldn’t have been nicer. They all wanted to know how the Jets won a Super Bowl, like I had the magic potion for winning!
Mel Blount helped me. He was such a spectacular player – but a nice man as well. He was giving and sharing for a guy helping the guy behind him on the roster.
It really was just a diverse team. Especially for those times. But the great thing was you didn’t really have to think about it. No one was worried about the different ethnicities – what everyone’s background was. I was probably edgy about my Ivy League background, but no one else cared. Just a lot of joking and ribbing one another.
Any fun stories your remember of your time there?
I remember going to the mall with the other players and just strolling around. Buying stuff, maybe getting a beer or a sandwich. Just seeing people look at us and wondering who we were. You couldn’t do that in New York.
There were just a lot of smiling moments like that. Nothing too much – Chuck was pretty no nonsense. I do remember when I first got to the team and there was a function we all had to go to. When I got downstairs there was Frenchy Fuqua in his fur coat, hat, and then noticed – he had goldfish in his shoes. I couldn’t believe that – I thought I was hallucinating!
But there was just a good feel around the organization. Football can be tough – can be nasty. But the Rooneys were involved and decent people. The Jets were more corporate than the Steelers – with Leon Hess there as the owner. There was a definite separation between management and the players. In Pittsburgh, you’d turn around an answer questions from Mr. Rooney about your family.
Any examples?
Well, you can cut people with warmth and class. It doesn’t have to be completely mean. That’s the worst moment of a player’s existence as it is. It happened to me twice – with the Jets and Steelers. But the Steelers did it with class. I knew I wasn’t going to last long in Pittsburgh when I was trying to cover Frank Lewis on a go route and just saw him running further and further away from me!
And not to worry! There was the World Football League! I went there after the Steelers released me. I remember driving with George Sauer in our Volkswagen bus – like one of those hippy buses – with the radio on. I remember that drive – it was such a nice moment.
Who stood out to you most as you look back on those times?
I really enjoyed watching Joe Greene play and carry himself. I knew he was “Mean” Joe Greene, but he was one of the warmest guys and greatest people I knew. He was a great player but a decent person too – with a great smile!
Ernie Holmes on the other hand – how can I say this. I just didn’t like to get too close to Ernie. He was in his own world – he could be a little scary.
Franco – some thought he was quiet because he was just distancing himself from everyone else. But that wasn’t the case. He was one of my favorite players – he was such a warm guy. He was just quiet.
Any thoughts on the way the game has changed?
The sport is different – it’s more serious. The players are better but there are more injuries. They just need to get some direction on injuries – to help minimize the injuries. There’s certainly no room for skinny defensive backs from Harvard now!
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