First, can you let us know what you’re doing now since your football days?
After the NFL I played for three years in the Arena Football League. I taught school for a year then started working for a railroad company. That’s where I’m at now. I’m a transportation supervisor – I started as a conductor and am now a supervisor.
How hard was the post-NFL transition for you – what made it easier?
It wasn’t bad. It’s funny how it happened, really. Technically, the railroad company that hired me was based in Pittsburgh. I had a 10 minute phone interview then went in for an in-person interview. The interview lasted two hours and it was all about my time with the Steelers! The last few minutes she said they should probably talk about the job, but for two hours we talked about the Steelers!
My time in the NFL I think earned me some respect from my co-workers as well. When I became a supervisor it made it a bit easier – they took to me a bit different.
A funny story. I started off in Detroit but they downsized and offered me a choice to work in Gary, Indiana or Pittsburgh. I chose Gary because it was closer to home. As far as I knew no one knew about my football background except maybe upper management. Well, we’re in the break room and I’m sitting down and a guy walks in and asks me why I’m in his seat. I told him I didn’t know it was assigned seating! I heard later he was a huge Steelers fan and a light bulb went off.
Later on he came in and started talking about whether he should buy a Franco Harris or JuJu Smith-Schuster jersey. I asked him “Wouldn’t you rather have an authentic helmet?” He asked if I had one and I said “Yeah! But you can’t afford it.” He told me I probably didn’t even own one, until someone chimed in and told me to tell them why I had one. That’s when I told him I used to play for them. After that we talked about the Steelers for an hour. Bless his heart, he was murdered two months later. It was a bad situation.
You were drafted by the Eagles but ended up with the Steelers in ’97. What brought you to Pittsburgh?
I started off in Philadelphia but I was cut and was at home for two weeks. My agent set up a visit to Kansas City – they had me come in on a Thursday. I worked out and they told me they’d sign me and I should just wait to hear from my agent. I told them I could wait in Kansas City but they said to leave my clothes there and fly home to spend time with my family before coming back Tuesday.
Well, Sunday, my agent calls and tells me that there was a change of plans and Kansas City wasn’t able to sign me after all. On Monday he told me I needed to fly to Pittsburgh – they were interested. So I flew there and they picked up me and two other guys. They dropped the other two at a hotel and then took me to a corporate housing complex. I thought that was weird.
The next day they picked the three of us up but took the other two guys to the workout area and me to the facility. They fitted me for my gear and had me go to practice. Now, I hadn’t signed anything. I wasn’t sure what was happening. That went on for a couple of days – I went to practices and sat in meetings. Then on Friday we are doing warm-up drills and I caught a pass when Coach Cowher came running up to me. “I know you’re wondering what the hell you’re doing here.” he said. He told me that Kansas City had to sign a linebacker at the last minute due to an injury. Kansas City recommended me to Pittsburgh – they evidently knew Pittsburgh was looking for a cornerback. So that’s when I signed a contract and how I ended up there!
Anyone help you and take you under their wing when you got there – on and off the field? How so?
Myron Bell took me under his wing. He helped me with the playbook and showed me how to maintain my body – how to work out the right way. He was a good friend – an awesome guy – a real stand-up, community-oriented guy. He and Lethon Flowers too.
My family was from Detroit too – sometimes Jerome Bettis would have me and my family to his house for Thanksgiving as well.
How did coming in from a smaller school like Central State affect you?
My agent had an unorthodox style. I had the size and speed to stand out but I was from a very small school. My agent had this idea though to compare me to Emmett Thomas – the Kansas City cornerback who coached for the Eagles. He actually got in touch with Emmett and Emmett I guess liked what he saw of my play. I wasn’t invited to the combine so my agent drove me there and got me interviews with all 32 teams!
So being from a smaller school had it’s disadvantages, but we overcame them. I credit my agent who thought outside the box.
Any funny/poignant memories that stand out most to you of your time there?
I used to match up with Charles Johnson all the time in practice. Kordell went at me all the time – I’d pick him off sometimes. He told me that “If I intercepted him one more time..!” He was a good guy. A while ago I was in Vegas and someone came and grabbed me – it was Kordell.
All those guys were good teammates – they were all approachable despite their fame. Pittsburgh and Denver were at the top of all the teams I played for – maybe Pittsburgh a notch above Denver!
Any other memories stand out to you?
In Philly I was playing cornerback. They threw a swing pass to Duce Staley and I let him have it – I knocked him on his back. My head was ringing from the hit! Emmett came up to me and told me “Hits like that make my dick hard! But next time take his legs out!”
I actually thought I’d end up playing some safety when we played against Pittsburgh. In a preseason game a couple of defensive backs went down and they had me play safety. At the half Emmett put the second half starting names on the board and mine was there at safety. I had never played safety before, but I had an interception, a pass breakup and seven tackles. Troy Vincent at the end of the game hit me on the helmet and told me that was my natural position.
You played in a number of cities and leagues – US and abroad – NFL, NFL Europe, Arena League… how did you manage through all of that change?
What prepared me for it was having played at a smaller school. It got me ready for those things – like sometimes we had no warm water so we had to take cold showers. It was a mindset to make the best of any situation.
I played for Toronto but they folded, then Dallas in the Arena Football League, where I was cut. Then Grand Rapids, Philadelphia, and Edmonton for a while where I got paid $500 a game. I made the best of it.
I got to play in Barcelona for NFL Europe for two years and was able to visit Frankfurt, Berlin, Scotland, Amsterdam…who would have thought football could have offered me that.
I missed my family, but my wife and daughter were able to visit me. I was homesick at times but made the best of it. I knew going to a smaller school made things harder. But my agent didn’t sugarcoat it. He just told me it was going to be a hard fight but we strapped up and did it!
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