First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing since your time playing football?
It’s been like three lifetimes since I played! After football I went back to San Diego State and got my degree and worked in the life insurance business for a few years. I changed careers after that – got my degree in engineering and then went on to work for Northrop then other aerospace companies. There were a lot of those jobs in California then.
But I quit that and went into real estate – got my brokers license and did that for a few years before I went back, got my masters and went into teaching. I taught seventh and eight graders in Orange County for 10 years or so until I retired.
Family-wise, I was the oldest of 11 kids – all of my brothers are here in California and my sister lives in the Virgin Islands. I had a daughter and a son as well.
As an undrafted free agent – what made you decide to sign with the Steelers after the draft?
It’s funny – even if you just played one game for the Steelers and no matter what else, people think you’re great! Even out here in California. I was able to play for two years there – I was very fortunate.
Walt Hackett was the defensive line coach then in Pittsburgh. He was a friend of a family friend, and he came out to San Diego and talked to me.
It’s funny. At the time I read a book about Alexander the Great and how he burned all of his ships to force his forces to stay and fight. I had that same mindset. Really. I went all the way out to Pittsburgh because I knew it was so far away I couldn’t just leave and go home.
That was Noll’s first season – how did everyone take to Chuck Noll?
He was the brand new head coach yes. The rookies -we responded to him real well. The vets – most of them, not so much. It’s a general statement, but I think most just weren’t used to his kind of coaching. I was used to coaches who taught more and didn’t yell at you – Don Coryell was my coach in college and he was like that. Noll was more like a teacher.
Even as an undrafted free agent, you seemed to catch Chuck’s eye. Why do you think that was?
Those days we had the seven-man taxi squads and less roster guys than today’s teams. But I knew I was going to make the team two weeks before the final cutdown day. I injured my shoulder and could only play in two preseason games.
In fact, after I first hurt it, we played Cincinnati in a preseason game. I couldn’t move my shoulder – I could move my arm but not my shoulder at all. I didn’t tell anyone, but I taped my arm to my side before the game. I was on the kickoff team and ran down the field and just dove at guys legs. I was a wedge-buster – me and Chuck Beatty,
Well I went back to the sidelines and Chuck came up to me. He must have been watching me and the way I was running. He asked why I was running strangely and I told him about the shoulder. He grabbed me and told me not to ever do that again – that I would only hurt myself more and the team.
What happened after that?
A week later, when I was in our dorm room at Latrobe, Chuck came to my room. He told me not to tell anyone, but that I was going to make the team in some capacity – whether on the taxi squad or roster he wasn’t sure yet.
Any idea why he told you?
I have no idea why. I guess he saw enough of me in practice to make a decision. But I don’t really know why.
Were any of the players helping you – mentoring you at all?
It was pretty competitive. The one guy that helped some was Jim Shorter – he was a veteran they just traded for from Cleveland. He and I were roommates and he’d tell me when I did something well or not. But we were competing for the same spot.
My secondary coach in college was Enrie Zampese. So I had good coaching and was good at bump and run coverage.
In fact, me and Nate Wright – neither one of us were drafted but we both played together at San Diego State and both played in the NFL. We got letters from teams saying they’d draft us, but no one did. We were the most disappointed people in the country after the draft!
I don’t know why neither one of us were drafted, but we both ended up starting as rookies- he ended up doing so for St. Louis. After that season Zampese had cornerbacks drafted in the first or second round consistently. We still talk about that now.
Any fun memories of your playing time there?
One that stands out was a game we played versus Philadelphia. Joe Greene was called for a penalty in the second quarter and he took the ball and threw it into the bleachers. He got kicked out of the game – that got a lot of attention.
But in the second half of the game Mel Blount ended up getting the ball somehow – I don’t remember how – and was tackled. Some of the Eagles were trying to punch him and a big fight ensued – I was on the sidelines watching when an Eagles player starting running right at me ready to fight. I thought “Here we go” when the guy turned and ran away. I thought he was afraid of Old Tough Clancy Oliver, until I turned around and saw Joe Greene was standing right behind me!
Any other fun memories to share?
I look at what guys talk about now and what leaves the locker room today – back then that stuff stayed in the locker room! I was always a quiet guy – I didn’t talk much and still don’t about that stuff! I mean, we’d bet $100 a game on who would have the best tackle, stuff like that, but not much more.
I just remember those games against the Raiders. Even in preseason it was instant hate. I didn’t even like them and I was from California! They thought they were the tough guys and Chuck wanted that mentality for us.
I remember Noll telling us that first season when we won just one game, that we were getting closer. That teams aren’t laughing at us any more and that we needed to keep building and building on that, and one day we’d be the team to be feared. He instilled that mentality in us.
What happened after that second season that saw you get released?
They let me go. I had some knee problems. That second season we played on that astroturf in Three Rivers – we moved there after playing at Pitt Stadium the first year I was there. That was a tough surface to play on.
But truthfully, Mel Blount is really what happened.
Art Rooney came up to me as a rookie – halfway through the season. I was having coverage problems – I think it was more an issue with getting the right safety help, but that didn’t matter. Mr. Rooney talked to me about staying with it, but also to be thinking about a career after football. He told me most guys don’t last longer than three of four years. That he knew it was tough now but to keep going at it.
He set my mind on life after football. It was never in my genes to play for more eight-to-ten years. I was going to quit after four years no matter what. It wasn’t in my genetic makeup to play longer than that. Football just didn’t pay enough.
But that helped prepare me for when the end of my career came. I tried out with San Diego when I left Pittsburgh but it didn’t work out there, I knew it was time for a real career anyway.
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