First, can you let me know what you have been doing since you retired from the NFL?
Well, I’m a farmer, and we never retire. I have a great crew that handles the wheat and wine grapes and the winery we own as well.
I basically walk around now acting like I’m important! They all treat me nice.
How was that post-NFL adjustment for you?
My adjustment was fairly good. I got hurt in ’62 and I knew I was done. I was let go by the Steelers before then and picked up by the Vikings and played there for a year-and-a-half before I got hurt.
Back then they didn’t fix up your knees when you got hurt. You just get cut and that’s it.
I was working for a trucking company then, then went and ran a ranch in Minnesota for 30 years. I made a lot of money in some business ventures then lost that and more in others. I then started up a financial consulting business in 1970 – we did financial research, and that did very well. I turned the company over to my son-in-law and it’s still a very successful business. He and my grandkids now work there.
So it was relatively smooth. My wife would probably say there were a lot of years where it wasn’t so smooth. I do miss the regimen and comradery of the team. Like being in the service or being on a team. It takes a team effort to win. That’s a very important part of the experience.
You were drafted by the Rams – tell me how you ended up in Pittsburgh?
I was drafted by the Rams in ’57 with the 51st pick. But my father-in-law died that May, and if you remember, that’s right before graduation. I had to come home and help with the wheat harvest through July, and had to miss some of training camp because of that. I called and told them I’d be late and showed up about three weeks into camp.
I showed up at only 165 pounds – down from 200 pounds. The coaches were really pissed – then I pulled a muscle on my first day.
I got in shape though and made it to the end of camp. The GM for the Rams was Pete Rozelle. Then the Tuesday before the first game of the season was the last day a team could trade a player. Well, Rozelle called me in to his office and told me he traded me to Pittsburgh. He told me how great of an opportunity it was. Now, don’t get me wrong, I liked Pete. But I had a wife and two kids. I wasn’t sure I was even going to go to Pittsburgh. I finally drove my wife and kids back to Walla Walla and found a house to rent for them since our house was being rented and left to Pittsburgh.
I flew to Pittsburgh – back then it took 12 hours. I flew in a prop plane and stopped over in Denver and Chicago.
What happened when you got to Pittsburgh – how did things start there?
I got there Sunday morning before the first game. The team had just done it’s warmups when I got there, I went to see Coach Parker and he told me he was glad I was there and that I’d be returning punts and kicks that game!
I was drafted to play defense. But I played running back and cornerback in college. So I played on offense the first few weeks while they waited to get Bobby Wells in a trade. Then I moved back to defense.
I met Art Rooney Sr. there early. He owned racetracks and farms so when he found out I was a farmer he liked that. When he saw me he would always ask how the ranch was. I was always impressed with that.
How did those years go for you in Pittsburgh?
My best season was 1959 when I led the league in interceptions and made the Pro Bowl. I was team captain in 1959 and 1960.
Harry Gilmore was our defensive backs coach. My association with him was good – he liked how I played. If the head guy liked you you can make mistakes and they’ll still keep you around. They were no cut contracts then. If they cut you you were gone – you had to pay your own way home!
My worst game was against Tommy McDoanld of the Eagles in ’59 – which was my best season. Norm Van Brocklin was the quarterback and McDonald ate me up pretty good. Of course the Eagles won the national championship that season.
The second time we played the Eagles that season was my best game. McDonald didn’t catch a pass that game and I knocked at least three passes down.
How would you describe yourself as a player?
This was before computers. They graded you all the time – they watched every play. Gilmore said he thought I was the smartest player on the team. He told me my first move was always the correct move, and I played on the left side where you were more vulnerable. I never won a game with an interception for a touchdown, but I knew how good I was. I don’t mean that in an arrogant way. But I knew I could do what anyone could do at that position. I realized that years later just how unbelievable a feeling that was.
Any fun memories of your time there?
I remember when they traded for Bobby Layne from Detroit. That year we had Earl Morrall, Layne, Jack Kemp and Len Dawson. Those were four phenomenal quarterbacks on one team. Stautner- he was one of the most impressive guys on the team and one of the great guys.
Football then was an important part of my life. I was glad I played but you didn’t make any money doing it. I took it very seriously – I was married and had kids so I took those responsibilities very seriously.
I do remember Layne – if he would have played sober he would have been even better – and he was a Hall of Famer! He was also the punter then. I remember he was so hungover once in training camp that when he was practicing punts he fell flat on his back!
Preston Carpenter was a really good end in Pittsburgh. He was also a card – a really funny guy. He was the first person that I remembered pulling a stunt on the field. They used to introduce the players before the game and they’d run out between the goalposts. Well, he came out with his arms flailing around and ran into the goalpost and acted like he knocked himself out. Of course it was all an act – we knew what he was doing after he hit the goalpost. But the fans all ooohed and aaahed.
And I still remember the fans yelling “Hey diddle diddle, Frannie up the middle!” every time Fran Rogel ran the ball.
So before I let you go, tell me a more about the vineyard!
Well, we decided to grow grapes and sold them for others to make wine in our hometown. The wine they made turned out to be very good. So I told my son who was in Chicago to come back – that I’d build a winery and he would learn to make wine.
In 1999, we launched Spring Valley Winery and it became very popular and can be found all over the country. My son was killed in a car accident in 2004, so we have a Frenchman who was a wine assistant with us already to take over. I was handling the marketing and that just wasn’t my plan. So I knew the CEO of St. Michel Wines, – a very large vineyard here. They took on the lease and distribute the wine. It’s been very nice – a very good arrangement.
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