First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since you stopped playing?
Since my playing days I went to work in finance. I spent one-and-a-half years in corporate finance then took an opportunity to work as an asset manager and have been doing that for the past 16 years. I’m in Austin and lead a big part of our business where we create investment solutions for financial advisors.
Was the post-NFL transition difficult?
That goes back a ways, but I’d say it was fairly smooth. I was able to find a job quickly. I was from Seattle and had a lot of interest from companies when I was done, but I wanted to stay close to Seattle at first. I just needed a job to help me get started in the corporate world. I had a lot of friends from college who already had three or four years of experience, and I was starting fresh. So getting my foot in the door at first was unnerving and challenging. But it all worked out for the best.
How did you end up in Pittsburgh?
I came from a small school – Western Washington, a Division II school. I had a good career there though – I was an All-American my Junior and Senior years – I was the punt returner, kick returner and safety.
I was hopeful going into the draft just to get a shot in the NFL. Back then three or four Division II guys would get drafted and another 15-to-20 would get signed as free agents.
After the draft on day two, I was wondering if it was going to happen. A lot of teams inquired about me with my agent, but I wasn’t certain if one would sign me. But about five minutes after the draft Willy Robinson – the Steelers Defensive Backs Coach – he called and said he wanted to sign me. My signing bonus was $4,000, which allowed me to buy a baby blue Lincoln Town Car!
It was a dream come true for me – a happy moment.
Did anyone take you under their wing at all when you got there? How so?
I have found memories of that. Willy was really helpful – Tim Lewis too. Brent Alexander was incredible – he helped me with anything I needed. He’d work with me on the defensive schemes and what offenses were trying to do. Mike Logan was incredible too – Lee Flowers and Deshea Townsend as well. All were just fantastic.
One thing I remember most that I am so thankful for now as I reflect back on it is how professional guys like Deshea and Brent were. They were such pros, the way they prepared – their attention to detail. All that effort that went into the way they prepared and competed – that inspired me well beyond my playing career.
And coming from a Division II school especially, getting to the NFL the schemes are so much more complex on defense and offense. And the athletes are so much better. Being where you are supposed to be pre-snap – getting everyone lined up correctly and being prepared to do what you are supposed to – you can’t take to long to learn that and stick around long. You get cut quickly if you couldn’t get that down.
What was your main role there?
Oh I was a special teams guy basically. I mean, I was a back up at safety but I was up and down on the roster from the practice squad. I had to understand what I needed to do at the position of course but my role was mainly to cover kickoffs and punt returns.
What do you think helped you most to make the team?
That’s a good question. I remember as I went through mini-camp and training camp Willy and Tim would make comments on my ability to run and how prepared I was. I took it all very seriously and worked hard. As rookies our heads are spinning trying to learn everything – before and after practice I’d watch tapes of practice, games – I’d watch Brent and Lee and how they lined up and adjusted to things. Maybe I’m projecting but I think that may be what Willy and Tim noticed.
My third preseason game – those third games were critical then – I made some plays. We played the Lions in Detroit and I sacked Joey Harrington twice and forced a fumble and had a pass breakup. That certainly helped too. As they say, when you’re on the field you have to take advantage of every opportunity and make plays.
As a smaller player from a smaller school, how did that affect you as a player and did it help at all?
It would have helped more if I was 6’2″ and 210 pounds! I was just shy of 5’10” and weighed 195. I looked at the average free safety size then and it was around 5’11” and 200 pounds. I wanted to be at 200 pounds. Gatorade was a sponsor then and they had those protein shakes in every fridge – so I’d drink one at every meal trying to gain weight. I got up to 205 – but I really didn’t need to do that. I think that was more of a mental thing. I was strong enough to bring guys down and could run. If I played at 190 I would have been fine, looking back on it.
Any fun off-field memories stand out to you?
There was a local businessman – Tom O’Malley – who used to put together a Steelers basketball team and I’d play on that. We’d play at high school gymnasiums against firefighters, policemen, high school alums…
Me, Brett, Deshea, Hines – a lot of us liked to play. They’d charge $5 to $10 to get in and collect after the game. We’d make around $100 to $200 a game – sometimes $400 if a lot of people came. That was a lot of fun – and a lot of us would then go grab beers at a local bar with all of that cash.
Brett was a helluva player – I threw some alley-oops to him. Hines – he was not a very good player!
Any on-field memories stand out?
That playoff game in Pittsburgh against Cleveland when we were down 34-17 and came back to win. That was incredible – the Terrible Towels waving and when Chris Fuamatu’ Ma’afala scored that go-ahead touchdown, the whole place was rocking. That was a big highlight.
And my first game I played in – against Cincinnati. That was an incredible feeling. I loved playing football since I was a little kid. It was always my dream to play in the NFL. Coming from a Division II school, I always wanted to play in the NFL, but I never told anyone – I didn’t want to get laughed at! I just hoped to get a shot at it.
When I was there in Pittsburgh I started to feel like I could play in the NFL. I wanted to give it everything I had to see if I could make the team. Then, to get on the field versus the Bengals for the first time – it was such a great experience. My brother and his future wife were there – it was just a cool feeling to have made it. I mean, it’s not like I made some game-winning play, but it was an overall great experience.
Do you watch the NFL today – any thoughts on the way the game has changed?
I have four kids now, two boys and two girls. The boys are starting to get into flag football and we root for the Steelers. I’m intrigued now as I watch football on where the game is evolving – I’ve started getting involved in coaching the boys.
I think the game has changed so much as I watch it – especially on offense. There’s just a ton of creativity on how offensive coordinators and head coaches put together their schemes and misdirection. I love watching that. If I choose to coach that creativity is something that inspires me. The RPOs and misdirection – it seems they are always trying to get the flow going one way so they can sneak a guy back out the other way for a big play.
Generally, there’s an ebb and flow to the game. The offense has it’s advantages and the defense adjusts.
Have any coaches and coaching lessons inspired you as a potential future coach?
My high school coach – he was just a classy guy who inspired me. Tony Davis – he was a right end for Seattle before he coached my high school. He had a profound impact on my life.
And Willy Robinson in Pittsburgh. He told me once “ET – don’t ever hesitate to ask a hard question. Just know that you need to be prepared for a hard answer.”
I appreciated that. I want to be honest and fair to people around me. That’s what people should be able to count on from a leader.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
