First off, what are you up to now?
I’m retired now – I’m getting old! I worked with the Riverhounds and enjoy going to as many of those games as I can. It’s good to keep in touch with them but I retired about three years ago. I hope they rebuild the stadium in a few years. I did youth development in the Pittsburgh area for them and worked at Point Park College for a bit with my son. When I was out of it I worked at Allegheny Millwork as a project manager.
At 73 I’d love to still work with the kids but it takes my body too long to recover! I still do some coaching on the side with the Riverhounds. It’s been interesting to see how much soccer has grown in the United States in the past 35 years. That’s why I came to the states and played in the ASL – to promote the game. It makes me feel good to see how far it’s come.
Why did you decide to play for the Pittsburgh Spirit in ’86?
The biggest thing was getting a paycheck! The NASL ran for a long time then it folded. Back then there were just so many leagues – the NASL, ASL – they all competed against each other. Now it’s better – you have the MLS which is like division one, and the USL, where the Riverhounds play, which is like division two. It’s much more like European soccer now. There were too many different leagues before – no one knew where to play.
When the NASL folded I went and played for the Spirit – they paid well. It was indoor soccer but I thought I could play that and then outdoor soccer afterwards- they didn’t coincide with one another. I did that for the first year but I got hurt playing outdoor soccer – the physical demands were just too much. Just too many games to play. I came back hurt to the Spirit that second season and couldn’t play for the first month – they told me I had to make a choice between the leagues then.
The Spirit got good crowds – they drew crowds of 10,000 to 12,000. But then the team went under – DeBartolo decided to go with hockey instead of soccer. Then Dave Kasper came to me and asked me to come back as an assistant coach foe the Riverhounds and handle their youth development.
How difficult was it to make the transition from player to coach?
It took a while. I could have been a head coach elsewhere – some teams asked me. But I knew I needed to learn about the different aspects of coaching – the recruiting, contracts….. I worked with John Kowalski as his assistant coach.
All the decent players then were going to bigger clubs. It was difficult – as the league got better it got a bit easier to get better players from across the globe. John was the U.S. National Team coach and that helped us build the franchise – to recruit players. We had 5,200 watch us play early in the franchise at Bethel Park. Then different owners came in and they wanted to save money. We played at different stadiums which was strange for fans. It was difficult to draw people. We’d play in Washington, PA and fans wouldn’t go – they wanted a Pittsburgh team, not a Washington, PA team.
Then another set of new owners took over and we started playing in Pittsburgh again. But we had that void of not playing for a while there. Jason Kutney got involved with the new owners to help get a new field built.
What does it take to get to the MLS for the Riverhounds?
The goal now is to play in the MLS. The stadium is very important – it needs to hold I think a minimum of 20,000 people so it needs more seats. But they also need to draw those people to the stadium. If they do that I think they can be an MLS team. It’s also important to get some matches against European teams to draw more interest – friendlies with teams that come to the states. And they need more events like concerts there to fund all of that. But where does everyone park’?
It’s tough when all the teams are competing not just for fans, but for events too…
It is – but depending on the event – stadiums like Acrisure and PNC Park are often too big for many performers. The Riverhounds stadium is the right size for many performers.
Were there coaches and players you modeled yourself after as both a player and coach?
Jurgen Klopp was a good coach for Liverpool I thought. In the U.S. you’re working mostly with U.S. players which is different. Bruce Arena – I liked his approach to U.S. soccer. It’s a different structure than Europe. Coaches – managers as they are called in England – they need to be with a team with a lot of money to succeed in Europe. The top teams can play 64 games a year – you need 25 really good players so you can substitute players with other really good players. It’s a much deeper league. The U.S. just isn’t as deep talent-wise. You need 15-to-20 good players on U.S. teams – they are more on the same level. And U.S. teams were limited for a long time on how many foreign players they were allowed to have on a team. I think it’s gotten more now – but it used to be four.
Is there a big difference in the styles of play?
I think there really is. In Europe they possess the ball more – they control it more. U.S. soccer is full speed all of the time. European teams like to possess the ball and wear teams down – they aren’t in a rush to go to goal. The USL – it’s a mad rush – mostly because most of the players just aren’t skilled enough to possess the ball without giving it away at some point – and lost possessions – one bad pass versus a top European team – that’s a ball in the net.
Is that due to the culture of the U.S. as well – wanting more fast-paced action and more goals to attract fans?
It could be – that sounds right. Europe is more patient and defense-minded. I watch the Riverhounds play – they just don’t have the strikers to get to an end of cross or take someone off the ball and put the ball in the net. A lot of one goal games. It’s strange to me. The Riverhounds did have a good forward and good offensive-minded defensemen but they traded them away and replaced them with more defensive-minded players. They didn’t keep their good goal-scorers. I’m not sure why.
How can the the Riverhounds grow more interest in the area and get to he MLS soon?
I think they can find MLS success. They need to get out in the community more. There are so many clubs in the area – Beadling, one in North Hills, now BVB… There are too many clubs and only so many good players. I did youth development for them but they need to do more. If you are better the younger players want to come play for you. When I was a kid I did everything I could to be seen and signed as a developmental player by my hometown club and was excited when Aston Villa signed me as a kid. I was there for six years until I was 19. We don’t have that in the U.S. Kids get paid to go to college now – it’s just not the same. It’s a big problem – there just aren’t that many good players in a city the size of Pittsburgh to lose what they have across the country.
Any last thoughts about it all?
It’s a slow process to compete with teams like the Steelers, Pirates and Penguins. But it’s slowly getting bigger. They just need to get the kids involved. Having the World Cup come to the United States will be a big help – hopefully many of the good athletes in the area will see that and decide to take up soccer.
I have three grandkids now that play soccer and I watch them all play. After they play they want me to play with them in the yard. It takes me days to recover when I do! But I love to see them playing at a young age!