First, can you let us know about what you’ve been up to since football and how you’re doing?
I’m just taking it easy now. I had a remodeling business – I worked on homes and condos. That’s about it. Now I’m just back in Ft. Lauderdale taking it easy.
About how I’m doing. Whooo. I’m doing ok. I can’t complain! I take it one day at a time. I had a plan and did a few things after football. But my body said “That’s it!” There’s only so much you can do then.
How is your health?
I’m moving around ok – I can’t complain. It can be rough for some. But that’s one of the things about playing in the NFL your entire life. You’ll have some issues. But football teaches you – no pain, no gain. You pay for it after.
Your Steelers-rivalry games started with Houston. Do you remember some of those first games and how you responded to them?
I remember Jerry Glanville was always at it with Chuck Noll. It was a rivalry before I got there – with Earl Campbell. He told us you always had to run it through Pittsburgh.
I remember by 95-yard kickoff return. And the trash-talking. Greg Lloyd and Chris Dishman – I never heard trash-talking like that before! They just couldn’t get on the field fast enough.
The older guys taught us about the rivalry – things that happened before we got there. They’d tell you about that stuff. And I spoke once with George Perles – he told me about how their defense played against us – how much they loved that rivalry.
Any of those guys in Pittsburgh stand out most to you when you think about the rivalry?
Lloyd and Kevin Greene – and Levon Kirkland and Chad Brown in the middle. Just going up against them, you wanted to make sure you got plenty of rest before the game! They were fierce.
Woodson was a Big 10 guy – and Carnell Lake liked to trash-talk when he was on the field! He wasn’t quiet as some thought!
How did the coaches and players in Houston prepare for those games?
Glanville wanted to make sure we were on all cylinders. He was a different character as a coach – he lived for that game – that rivalry. He wanted it to last.
The trash-talking on the sidelines – I remember the referees trying to keep guys from crossing the the lines to stop fights from happening! That’s just the kind of players and intensity we had.
Glanville – he got us fired up. The best job he did was getting us fired up for those games.
How did he do that?
He played that Wild Wild West song by Kool Moe Dee before the games! He loved that song – that was his hype music!
The whole defense – and the wide receivers – they were the ring leaders too. The Steelers had hitters so we knew we had to be the same way. Bruce Matthews and Mike Munchak were veteran leaders who were vocal. Warren Moon was a leader too but he was much more low key.
Now Ernest Givens and Haywood Jeffires – they were loud. Ernest was the best shit-talker in the world!
I remember once when Ernest was knocked out of a game and wanted to come back in. He was adamant about getting the ball and was yelling – ranting and raving on the sidelines. You could hear him from the sideline to the huddle!
How different were things in Cleveland when you signed there that last season?
I’ll never forget when I first got to Cleveland – I called Michael Irvin – he was a Ft. Lauderdale guy too. In Cleveland the veterans ran the show – they did things their own way. I asked Michael and some others if that was how it was around the league and they all said no. Cleveland was a crazy team that way.
Why was it different?
Bill Belichick was in his growing years as a head coach. There were so many veteran players on that Cleveland team. There weren’t any “Yes Men”. It just felt different than the rivalry we had in Houston. In Houston Glanville got fired up and we all got fired up with him. In Cleveland under Belichick and the veteran players, it was all just calmer and less intense.
What do you think about the Steelers rivalry now between {now Tennessee} and Cleveland?
You need those alpha dogs in these rivalries! Like when Baltimore had Ray Lewis. For us, we had some of those guys. Pittsburgh sure had them. They had grown men – believe me! It was intense because of those guys. You need those dogs on the team to keep those rivalries going!
Was there ultimately respect for one other after the games, or was the rivalry more personal than that for guys?
Oh we definitely had respect for each other once the games ended. One of the helmets I own is Greg Lloyd’s. We went to the Pro Bowl and I told him that so many of the dents on his helmet were from hitting me that he should let me have it, so he did!