First, tell me how it’s going with you now and what you’ve been up to since your NFL days?
Well, I turned 88 last month and I’m just here enjoying life. I golf two days a week and play cards two days a week with some old buddies. I moved into a retirement community and I’ve been happy with that. I’m enjoying my family – my kids and grandkids. Whatever I have left in life, I’ll enjoy those days that I have left!
Let’s talk Houston and how you landed there as a coach?
I coached with the Jets under Eubanks. I knew he was retiring and knew who they were giving the job to next. I didn’t really think that guy would be successful and it turns out I was right. I called Sid Gillman – I knew he was putting together a coaching staff and he hired me.
I coached for two Hall of Fame coaches in Gillman and Eubanks. It’s funny because they couldn’t have been more different. Eubanks was like your grandfather – he would check in to see how you were doing and have you over for the holidays. He watched over you.
Gillman – he was the most foul-mouthed guy I think I’ve ever been around! I remember when a scout really liked Billy Johnson in the draft – this was before he was “White Shoes”. Well, round seven comes along and the scout tells Gillman that Johnson is there, and Gillman told him “I won’t draft that cocksucker – he’ll never make it in the NFL” A couple rounds later the same thing happens and he tells the scout “I’m not drafting a motherfucking midget!” Later on the same thing happened, and Gillman said fine “I’ll draft the cocksucking midget – but if he doesn’t make it you’re fired!”
That was Sid. He didn’t mean it of course but that’s how he talked!
You had some success against the Steelers in those rivalry games, but not tons. What made it so difficult?
We won a game 6-0 when Bradshaw got hurt and Dungy filled in for him. But their defense was just too good. Campbell would have no luck running against them – 56 yards, 70 or so yards…It was just an impossible defense. They had, what, seven or eight Hall of Fame guys to our four or five?
And Terry – he would hurt you once or twice a game on third downs by running for a first down. Those would kill us.
Any good stories about your coaching days to share?
I remember when we had to go play San Diego in San Diego when Campbell was hurt, Pastorini was hurt, and the backup running back was hurt too. It was one of the biggest upsets of that time. And it was because I watched film on Fouts and saw he had a big key – a big tip. I’m not sure if anyone ever told him about this. When he was under center and his feet were parallel to the line of scrimmage, they ran the ball. Bingham would yell “Army! Army!” whenever he saw that. When Fouts’ feet were staggered, they were passing the ball. Our safety had four interceptions I think because of that.
And we had a tip on Bradshaw too! When Terry backed straight out from center he was passing left or over the middle. But when he turned his head coming out from center it was to the right or the middle. Of course, that didn’t stop those receivers from making some great plays.
And Bob Trumpy – the Bengals’ tight end. We saw on film that when he lined up and had his right foot up and left foot back they’d run to the left, and when he had his right foot back and left up they’d run the other direction. We tried not to make it too obvious when we saw those things of course. Just enough to help us make the play.
Tell me about Bum Phillips -what was he like to coach under?
Sid hired Bum and I within one day of one another. We actually lived together in an apartment until our families came up.
Bum was in a unique situation. That was when country music was a big thing and he came in with his big hat – it was perfect for him. He was an unusual coach – most coaches didn’t go out drinking with their players – you never heard of that – but Bum did. He had good assistants that worked for him.
Did that get frustrating for the other coaches?
It wasn’t frustrating for us. That was just who he was. He was a great guy – he would pick me up in his truck on the way to work or the airport. We were as close to friends as coaches could be.
How did it end up you becoming head coach after Bum?
To tell you the truth – and I don’t mean to embarrass anyone – but Bum at the end of his time there just made some bad trades. He traded Pastorini for Stabler who was finished by then. Then he traded top draft picks for Dave Casper who was also finished by then. When I took over there the team really had to be cleaned out.
In fact, Dan Rooney told me after I left that I should have asked to be made GM after I cleaned house of all those veteran players as part of my agreement there, I wish I had thought of that.
Any other memories of Chuck Noll and those Steelers games?
Noll was a quiet guy. He had so many Hall of Fame players. That’s how you win – with talent like that. You don’t win games without talent.
I remember the controversial Mike Renfro call. That was the beginning of instant replay. That would have been us in the lead in the third quarter and given us momentum. I don’t know if we would have won the game but it was a huge play in the series.
Any other memories of your coaching career that stand out to you?
I’m not sure how many people know it but I was the coach who broke the color barrier at quarterback. I was the coach at Xavier when the had a football team and got a call from a friend who told me they had a great quarterback – Terrell Williams in Florida – who I should take a look at. The problem was – he was Black. I didn’t care about that – I just wanted to win games.
Well, that season we were undefeated going into Chatanooga to play them. Before the game though the players came to me and told me we had a problem. I looked out the window and saw 400 Ku Klux Clan members outside yelling at us. We walked out arm in arm to the bus – I was afraid we’d get shot as they yelled all kinds of things at us – you can imagine.
Well, we kicked the winning field goal at the end of the game – but the referees wouldn’t let us win. They called it no good. That’s just how it was then.
What stands out most about your coaching career to you?
I was one of few coaches who was a head coach in high school, college and the NFL. Each level was so different. High school it’s about teaching kids. College it’s recruit, recruit, recruit. At the NFL level, it’s about teaching guys who want to be taught. It’s about money and success. You have to earn your players’ respect. If you don’t, they won’t look to learn from you.
I remember when Bum told me he was hiring his son Wade. I asked him if Wade could coach and he said yes. He had some tough coaches on staff there. I told him he had two jobs there – to get guys in shape and keep the guys happy.
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