First, tell us about what you’ve been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?

I’m in the youth and adult mentoring business – I’ve been doing that for 25 years now. I played for 12 years before I retired – started a photography business after I retired but that was only for a short while.

The transition was wasn’t easy. It’s never easy for players – so I ended up also helping to consult with other players to help them. I went back to school after I retired and studied psychology because of the transition difficulty then worked with schools and helped consult for the state of California.

How did you deal with the difficulties of the transition?

There are just so many changes. One way was to study psychology. I was injured which helped to end my football career. Many guys don’t leave with their health. The bottom falls out of your paycheck and most leave the town they played in too. And many also get divorced when they retire – I did. The changes put questions in your mind about what to do next – you become like a boy again, and that’s hard on the wives. So leaving the game is like a divorce – times three.

As a mentor, did you fall back on any of the lessons and mentors from your playing days?

I took a lot of lessons from the NFL. Dick Modzelewski – who just passed away – he coached for the Browns. If a mentor is a guy who’s been there and done that, Dick was a great mentor. He saw something in me I didn’t see in myself – he believed in me when I was struggling.

So I asked a number of people about what defensive lineman was the defensive player of the year in 1976 – many didn’t recognize your name despite you being one of the most dominant guys in the league then. Why do you think that is?

I guess I’m just a quiet guy. There was never much of a story in me – I was always a quiet guy who grew up in the woods in Oregon. I was a non-verbal guy to the press. I wasn’t angry – I just didn’t have the colorful stories like some guys did.

I looked back at my career too, and I think over my time there the Browns were 90 and 90. We never had a dominant year. I remember one season I made the Pro Bowl with every guy from the Steel Curtain except Ernie Holmes. They inserted me in to the starting lineup at the Pro Bowl with those three guys.

You guys all get a good laugh out of that?

It’s funny because we really didn’t say anything about it. But Lambert was there too and he was the only guy I know who almost got kicked out of the Pro  Bowl. He was screaming at his own defensive linemen for not hustling – they almost threw him out!

What made you such a dominant player in Cleveland?

It was the perfect defense for me. I was a lighter player at 245 pounds. I wasn’t physically dominant, but I was quick – I could move fast laterally then pop someone in the chin.

I’m not sure how many other guys were like me in that I was also very analytical. I always tried to figure out what was going to happen before the snap. As a defensive tackle you play on the inside and can’t see much of the field. You can’t see what’s happening or how guys are lining up. You have to be lightening quick to react to what you see and what happens.

My first three years in the league I was just a clumsy lineman. About four-to-five years in, I started to really be able to understand what I was seeing and react quickly. It was always a challenge – you wanted to follow your assignment – you never wanted to be the guy that didn’t and let up a big run. But you also want to be able to trust what you see and guess when you think you have a chance to make a play too.

Do you think the rivalry then was bigger for the fans or players?

I think it started with the fans and then the players fed off of the fans. Before the 70’s the Steelers were pretty bad and the Browns were good. Then the Steelers got great and the Browns were good but not great. That’s when the rivalry started for me. Pittsburgh became a powerhouse. The rivalry was heated too because the cities were so close and were similar – both blue collar towns. I went to Three Rivers 10 times and was 0-10 there – and we won less than 50 percent of our games in Cleveland. Pittsburgh just became a dynamo.

What memories stand to you most about the rivalry?

One is – we’d play a lot of those games close in the first half – maybe 10-7 scores, that kind of thing. You’d see the Steelers players laughing and joking going into the half. But I think Coach Noll ripped them at the half. They’d come out in the second half and it was like they were playing cat and mouse with us. They beat us by a huge amount in the second half.

And I had all the respect in the world for Bradshaw. I think people thought he was stupid because of his Southern accent – but he was far from stupid. He was a great quarterback, and smart. He’d line up and if he saw the tackles were split too far wide, he’d tap the center and run for a quarterback sneak for 10 yards. He was thick – like a fullback too.

I was also there when Joe Gilliam came in after we knocked out Bradshaw, and when Turkey Jones planted Bradshaw on his head and knocked him out. He would have been kicked out of the league for doing that today.

Who were some of the guys you remember lining up against that made those games tough for you?

Well,  I remember their offensive line worked like clockwork. If you managed to beat one guy, a second guy always rotated in to block you. And if you beat that guy somehow, a third guy was there, or the first guy rotated back.

And early on they rotated centers too. Mansfield and Webster were both great. They’d being in the other guy and you’d think, oh great, now they have a fresh guy at center!

Any other guys stand out?

Sam Davis and my old college teammate Jon Kolb – you could feel when they were about to double-team you. They were big weightlifters. I’d just try to plant my feet and try to hold my ground.

Kolb was a quiet country guy. Sometimes I’d try and talk to him on the field. He didn’t like that and I knew it- he always wanted to concentrate on the play. I’d ask him when Bradshaw was taking his time at the line if he remembered when his dog tried to jump into the bed of his truck but landed on the roof instead and scratched it all up…just going on, and Jon would keep telling me to “Shut up, just shut up Jerry!”

When we were in college, I remember spotting Jon when he was bench pressing. He got angry – he only benched 500 pounds two times! I wish I could have benched half of that!

What do you think of the rivalry today Do you watch the games?

I think it can get back to it. It’s hard for me to say – I only get back there a couple of times a year But I think you just have to add some water to it and it’ll get back to what it was. The Browns have a good quarterback now and could have a good season

One interesting note by the way. I was Bill Cowher’s teammate in Cleveland. He was just one of the guys then – a knucklehead like the rest of us. I didn’t see him as any different then but he was a tremendous special teams player – he had that great attitude. He definitely had the drive and some smarts to end up doing what he did.

One good story about Bill. Well, sort of about Bill. I lived in the country in Medina – in Cleveland. I rented a room in the house I lived in with a teammate – Matt Miller. Well, one morning I got up and went to the living room and there I saw him with Bill’s girlfriend. My folks were visiting so I couldn’t say much – but I took a newspaper and rolled it up and hit him in the back of the head and told him I couldn’t believe he was horn-dogging it with Bill’s girlfriend! He said “No – that’s not his girlfriend Jerry! They’re identical twins!”

And it was true. Bill and Mike both ended up marrying those two gals!

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