First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?
Well, I work for a Chevy dealership now – Ganley dealership in Cleveland. I’ve been there for a year or so – and was with another dealership for seven years before that.
I also do the pre and post game shows for Browns away games for CBS here and work as a uniform inspector for Browns home games – me and Felix Wright do that. Felix brought me in after the league requested two guys do it per game.
How hard was that post NFL adjustment for you?
I wasn’t prepared at all – that’s the bottom line. I had myself set up financially, but not mentally at all. My thinking was miscued, and I was in another place mentally. I drank way too much and my life went awry for 10 to 15 years. I got myself sober and starting running with some different guys and got my life back in order.
Have you tried to help other alumni after learning from your experiences?
I wish the Browns were more involved with their alumni. When the Browns came back, they weren’t reaching out to alumni. They got a little better but Al Lerner’s death slowed that down. They went through too many GMs, coaches and front office personnel – no one took the alumni seriously. The Haslams have been better. Dorsey was very good at it because he was a former player – I played against him in Green Bay – he understood as a former player how important that was.
As a rookie, were you aware of the Steelers-Browns rivalry?
I played in a division II school in North Carolina and grew up in Virginia. I didn’t know anything about Cleveland – they didn’t show them on TV. We watched the Redskins play Dallas and the Giants. But when I got to Cleveland as a rookie I heard about the 17-years where Cleveland never beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh. But we beat them in my second season and after that we had a good record against them. The rivalry heated up as I got there.
What made you so successful versus the Steelers then?
Well once I got my feet on the ground and learned to succeed as a pro football player, I learned to take every game seriously. It intensified when you played teams within your division. Cincinnati had Boomer, Eddie Brown, Collinsworth, Houston had Moon and those wide receivers, but Pittsburgh then was after Bradshaw and before Ben. And their defense wasn’t as tough then either. We were locked and loaded. Lindy Infante had so much talent on that offense. We understood what we wanted to get done on offense and made it easier for us.
How about you specifically?
I don’t know if I ever separated myself from the pack. For my role, I just tried to make few mistakes. I was a good blocker and knew where I should be. Webster, Brown, Brennan got the most targets – I was the fourth wide receiver. I’d maybe get four to five targets but would catch over the middle and block well.
Woodson, Delton Hall, Woodruff – we’d always got at it. But to be honest when we were on that run form ’86-’88 especially, they weren’t really that scary to us. They didn’t feel like a big threat.
Any memories stand out most to you from those games?
Of course, the game where we won in overtime when Slaughter caught the deep pass down the sideline. Breaking the losing streak. Also the time I caught a pass and bounced off of Woodruff and Woodson and Woodson then tried to chase me down but couldn’t catch up to me. The guys told me they couldn’t believe Woodson couldn’t chase me down – I just told them that if you’re chased by fast guys, it just makes me run faster!
Were there guys you liked facing most on those teams?
There weren’t any guys in particular. I didn’t do much talking as a wide receiver. I was 6’5″ – defensive backs didn’t do much talking at me. I was a country boy at heart and was there to be a good blocker too, so you didn’t want to make me angry. You wouldn’t have liked that.
I did enjoy watching Minnifield and Dixon jaw at wide receivers – those guys were vocal. We heard it all the time in practice. We took on that same dog pound mentality as receivers that they had on defense.
What do you think of the rivalry today?
I didn’t think there was a rivalry for the last eight-to-nine years when Ben, Bell and Brown were all there. The Browns were never talented enough and the coaches weren’t smart enough – and the front office didn’t do a good enough job. They won some games here and there but that was it. Rivalries have big hits, games go back and forth deep into the fourth quarter. They are close games – and those didn’t exist for a while.
I think they have players now that they can go on a nice run and get some wins.
What do you think about situations like that with Myles – you had circumstances that came close, no?
We had no issue with Pittsburgh then. We may have lost three times over my years playing against them. I’m excited to watch what transpires between the two organizations and fan groups now. I remember watching fans fight in the stands during our games – with cameras all over the place now that stuff can’t happen.
In the 80’s, we weren’t like what you see the Browns doing now though. Schottenheimer was a hell of a coach and we all respected him. We didn’t make many mistakes under him like this team is making. He was like the uncle or grandfather you didn’t want to disappoint. He’d get the most out of you and then he’d go even deeper and get more out of you.
Kitchens is a new coach – he’s more of a player’s coach. I don’t think he’s gotten to that point yet. I think players are too comfortable making mistakes . They should be able to do better – we wanted to do better when I played I think. We also didn’t want to disappoint the veterans on the team like Matthews, Hairston, Risen and Baab. I don’t think this Brown’s team has that kind of veteran leadership yet.
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