First off – what are you up to now?
I went into real estate after I was done skating. I worked in Small Town USA and soon realized though that it’s not about what you know about construction – it’s about the PTA moms you raise your kids with. People chose their agents because they all raised their kids together. That was interesting but frustrating – that left me out.
Now, I’m a decorator – I’ve been doing that for the past year-and-half. I’ll be putting out a new line soon of furniture made out of pottery – stools, lamps, tables….hopefully it’ll work. I haven’t seen anything like it in the marketplace.
How did you first grow a love of skating and how did you pursue that living in Pittsburgh?
I’m 65 – the world has changed dramatically since the time I fell in love with skating. Back then the Olympics were enormous family events. We all watched them as a kid – that was storied stuff. Now, there are a million ways as a kid to follow dreams – but back then we didn’t have Tik Tok and Instagram…
My father was a high school principal – we lived a modest life. I watched skating and loved it as a kid – we lived close to North Park and they had an outdoor arena, so my parents would take me there to skate on weekends. We moved later to Washington, PA and the rink there had a skating club and my parents signed me up to that. They had private instructors – that sort of thing. It was in the United States Figure Skating Association system so I got access to that competitive world.
Was there anything about growing up in the city that impacted your skating style/general mindset – especially in such a sports-oriented city?
I don’t think so. I wasn’t rah rah Pittsburgh though I did love the city. But to be honest skating was my way out – to go beyond the small town of Washington, PA.. In the 70s some of us dreamed of that – all of those ideas and fantasies of getting out involved sports. I think that’s why skating has fallen out of favor now. It was a female-drive sport and back in the 70s – girls looked at Dorothy Hamill and Peggy Fleming and thought that could be a way out. In the 80s girls started more to become lawyers and doctors – those became real ways out then. But in the 70s sports were more of a palatable way to get out of a small town.
I teach adults to skate on Sundays in Connecticut. After we’re done there’s a girl’s hockey team that comes out. You would never have seen that in the 70s. The culture has changed dramatically.
You partnered with Judy Blumberg – how did you both meet and what made you such a good tandem?
Judy was fearless – she was great. I was fearless too – skating fast was fun. We didn’t know what we were doing then and that was ok with her. Ice dancing was also new to the Olympics still – the Olympics before our first Olympics was the first for ice skating. It was staid at first – it became more athletic and aggressive later. She was game for that – and we really enjoyed each other as well.
How difficult was the “divorce”, as you called it, from Judy and what brought that on?
My answer will be different from Judy’s – we are living the same thing but we both have different stories. We haven’t spoken in years. Neither is correct, but my story is true to me.
I was really devastated by the results of the ’84 Olympics. I had no fucking clue what to do after them. We came in fourth and that is very different from the contracts you get coming in third. You could make a living out of placing third, but not fourth.
As a 24 year-old who didn’t think the score was fair – it was too much for me. I had no clue what to do and no one to really help me figure it out. Judy wanted to skate forever. I wanted a job – a life and money. I loved skating but I didn’t come from means. My parents paid for my training 100%. The Americans were true amateurs in the sport then – the rest of the world was being funded.
The 80’s Olympics you and Judy finished 8th – then that fourth place you talk about in 1984 after a controversial scoring by Italian judge, Cia Bordognan, based on the music (“Scheherazade”) you used. What were your thoughts on that at the time – how do you navigate something so out of the ordinary like that?
I was truly dumbfounded and devastated. I didn’t get it. I can laugh at it now and I think I can understand the other side of it. Life goes on and I had a great life because of skating. But at the time I was just like “What the fuck!” It felt like I was just standing there naked in front of everybody.
But here’s some poetic justice. The first figure skating gold medal Americans won was to the same song – in 2014!
Was it an homage to you?
No! I don’t even know if they knew who were were!
Is there something that would surprise people in terms of what makes a successful figure skater?
No – I watch talented 10 year-olds that I think are sure-fire talents and they are gone the next year. I see kids burn out a year before the Olympics. I think there are too many factors on what it takes – coaching, personality, finances…there’s no script for it.
You did a lot of choreography after you were done with competitive skating including Stars on Ice where you won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Choreography – what made you choose to do that and how different was it from the kind of choreography you did in pairs skating?
It was an extension of what I did as a skater. It saved my ass – it was the golden age of skating then. We toured nationally in A arenas – 16,000-to-18,000 seat buildings; 15-20 cities. Stars on Ice doesn’t even exist now – they couldn’t fill 5,000-person buildings. I watched Skate America and there were a number of empty seats.
What was the Battle of the Blades like – how did the former Penguins and other hockey players like Tie Domi, Claude Lemieux, Robert Probert and former Penguins like Craig Simpson, Stephane Richer and Ron Duguay like – how did they adapt to figure skating – how did you coach them and how did they handle the sport?
I had the best time doing that show – more than Stars on Ice. Stars on Ice was creative and it showed off ice skating – that was my thing. That’s why I’m a decorator now – I love the creative work. That also helped get me out of that Olympic mishigas. Because of that I was able to buy a loft in New York – I was making money again. I designed it and it was on the cover of Interior Design Magazine. I bought a house in Palm Springs just when Battle of the Blades started.
I was stupid enough to buy that second property before I even had a job – right before the financial crisis. So I had two multi-million dollar properties. I ended up moving back East from Palm Springs after the financial mess.
The guys in Battle of the Blades were the coolest – they didn’t know what they signed up for and we didn’t either. It was all new. We did it for seven seasons and it was great. The guys were all in their 40s – they still had that competitive edge in their heart-of-hearts and didn’t want to lose. They were skilled athletes and it pissed them off when they couldn’t do some things.
How did you work with them?
It was astounding what we asked of them. How they had to learn quickly how to move their feet with the music – to skate on your left foot on the count of four – if you got the foot wrong you’d fall on your face. And they had to learn a new number every week!
We’d all go out to – we had some great dinners in Toronto.
Stephan Richer – he skated in our first season with Marie France. Both were French Canadian and would speak to each other in French and I had no idea what they were saying. He almost clocked me once. My eyeballs got so big. Hockey players are huge – they are like gladiators. I was this lithe, little figure skater.
What happened?
I worked with the hockey players and grabbed their hands to show them what to do. When I worked with him I turned his body and pulled him around and he turned around and was about to clock me then stopped. He didn’t want to be manhandled – it was a knee-jerk reaction until he realized what happened. I was like “Oh shit!”
Is there a memory that stands out most as you think back over your career now?
Not really no. Maybe if I won a medal and was on the podium at the Olympics that would have stood out – but no one memory stands out most.