First, can you talk about the inspiration behind these two books?
On the Oakland book, I was reading an article on when the Pirates opened in Forbes Field – it was on the same day of the Jack Johnson fight in the Duquesne Gardens. I thought about that – back then every major sporting event in Pittsburgh happened within walking distance of each other in Oakland. I thought about that and the four facilities that they occurred in.
With the Integrating Pittsburgh Sports book, Tom Rooney has done a lot of work already with the Josh Gibson Foundation for example. Integration in Pittsburgh sports – there have been a number of important aspects of that that started in our area and I wanted to celebrate those pioneers. Many didn’t get their just due in the past and we wanted to correct that.
Stew Johnson was the first African American to get a basketball scholarship in the South from a non-HBCU school. Talking to him 60 years later, hearing the pain in his voice still, you hear those stories but you don’t get their feelings without those conversations. To know what it was like for him to go through that at the time. I wanted to celebrate those efforts.
Any surprises come from your research on the Oakland book?
It was rare combination of some good and some unique moments. My goal in these books I’ve written is to tell the entire story of sports in this area. For example, many may not know that the Ice Capades actually started at the Duquesne Gardens. Or that the Conn-Louis fight was broadcasted at Forbes Field and interrupted a Pirates game that night. Or that Pitt was a wrestling power in the NCAA at one time.
It seems like these venues at that time created a much closer fan experience than ones today. Is that true from what you’ve seen?
Yeah. I think they were more intimate and closer. The 1955 Duquesne championship season, fans were on the court and they had gamblers behind the court screaming and yelling at the players and coaches. Dudey Moore – the coach then – went after them in the stands once.
Forbes Field was much more intimate than Heinz Field of course. Fans were a part of the game – not in a way they are today. The players talked to the fans when they exited Forbes Field and fans had to walk on the field to leave, which was pretty cool.
I was a Duquesne alum in the 1980’s – Fitzgerald Field House was intimidating. I never heard loudness like that anywhere else. The fans were a part of it – it was violent but it gave them a huge home court advantage. When Big East teams came in the 80’s and played Pitt, Pitt had a distinct advantage. Fans got players off their games.
I was able to get a peek at the Pitt Pavilion under Pitt Stadium before they converted it to a weight room for the players. It was cool imagining what it must have been like. It only held 2,000 people and there was no heat in the Winter. The visitor’s locker room was outside too – you had to walk in from the outside to get there.
I walked to every one of the four facilities we write about once to see how long it took – Fitzgerald Field House, then Duquesne Gardens, Pitt Stadium and Forbes Field. It took me 30 minutes total. And I’m not a fast walker!
On the Integrating Pittsburgh Sports book – when you started working on that, did you get s sense of where the city stood on integration in relation to other cities?
I think they were ahead of the game in many ways. The Steelers had Ray Kemp there in 1933 which was way ahead of the pace then. But then the NFL didn’t sign any African American players until 1946. So they went backwards after that versus baseball, who signed players in 1947. The NFL stopped for 12 seasons and the Steelers didn’t sign another African American player until 1952.
Pitt had Jimmy Joe Robinson and Bobby Grier which was ahead of the game too. The way the students and faculty supported Bobby when the Georgia Governor called for a boycott ahead of the Sugar Bowl, for example.
The way Clemente was treated at first in the 60’s – that was one example where Pittsburgh doesn’t come across as forward-thinking.
But in the 1950’s, their success was due also to Carl Bernier who doesn’t get enough credit for breaking ground because he was Puerto Rican. He also wasn’t good at handling the calls against him due to his color. His temper got the best of him at times – he had so much talent but got the best of him and he couldn’t handle it. He ended up hanging himself in the 60’s – it was a sad story. If he played in the 2000’s he would have been one of the best players in the game.
I interviewed Stew Johnson – his daughter goes to Duquesne now and is on the basketball team. He told me he did a Zoom call to talk to her teammates and talked about civil rights. He broke down because he saw things going backwards again. He apologized to them for not getting it right he said in the 60’s. So Pittsburgh does seem to be suffering from a downward spiral now if you listen to some fans.
Are there some sports that excelled in this area more than others?
Boxing is one area that attracted the most acceptance here. Pittsburgh had a great boxing legacy in the first half of the 20th century as great boxers were seen by fans – boxers like Jackie Wilson and Charlie Burley, who was one of the greatest boxers never to win a title and the inspiration for the movie Fences.
And you have to consider the Pirates even though they came late to the game. In the 60’s and early 70’s they went after Latin American players and that was the inspiration for those great teams in the early 70’s. One of the great achievements of integration was on September 1st, 1971 – the first lineup of color. We look at all nine players in the book.
The Steelers didn’t have great grades early on in this area, but the dynasty of the 70’s doesn’t happen without Bill Nunn going to the HBCUs and the team being one of the first to draft from there. There aren’t four Super Bowls without guys like Shell, Greene, Blount…nothing happens without that.
So without being on the forefront of much of these integration aspects, the four Super Bowls, 70’s Pirates and Duquesne being on top in basketball in the 50’s because they aggressively recruited Black players – none of that happens.
Any last thoughts on the books?
I’m just proud to work with a great group of historians and writers. They all bring different voices but it’s all well-researched. It’s an honor to have them all be a part of this project.
All the books are published by Arcadia – one of the leading regional publishers – and can be found on Amazon, Barnes & Nobles – places like that. The Oakland book is due out 8/22/2022. The integration book is due out summer of 2023.
All the contributors include:
Where Pittsburgh Played: Oakland’s Historic Sports Venues
Integrating Pittsburgh Sports