First, tell me a bit about Ourlads for the readers.
Ourlads is the oldest draft guide – it was around before guys like Mel Kiper and Todd McShay. If you watch the draft you’ll see our guides on the tables of the commentators.
We track all the information about the players and NFL transactions as well. Dan Shonka has been there as the GM for more than 20 years now. Ourlads really has been the founding father of the draft you can say.
And how did you get involved?
In college I wanted to get into scouting. I interviewed with Dave Gettleman when he was the Director of Pro Personnel but didn’t get the internship. So I put on my big boy pants and got a job in finance, but I did some free work – sending out my scouting reports to folks and even drove myself to the combine in 2010.
In 2012 Dan Shonka reached out to me and asked if I wanted to work for free for him on his college depth charts. It was grunt work – keying data on players – jersey numbers, weight and measurement changes, stuff like that. I think it was just a test he gave everyone to see if you could handle the grunt work.
I started doing scouting reports for him and he liked my style and that led to me becoming the lead scout for Ourlands. I now scout 600-to-800 guys and write 300-to-400 scouting reports every year.
So jumping right into it – what are the strengths and weaknesses you see in this draft class so far, considering it’s still pre-combine?
It’s not very top-heavy. Usually there are three or four top, blue-chip guys that have All-Pro potential. I have no one in that top tier this year. That’s the weakness – the teams at the top of the draft won’t likely get that blue chip guy.
The strength is that a lot of guys last year that would have come out went back to school due to Covid. A lot of those guys would have been guys that would have gotten drafted. So in the middle to the back half of this draft, even into the undrafted free agents, I think you’ll see those areas more saturated with talent than usual.
How about by position?
At the micro level, tight end is the one standout group. I have three or four with starting caliber grades usually, but this year I have seven or eight with starting caliber grades. Twice as many as usual.
There is only one top left tackle prospect. But I do think there are a number of starter level guys in rounds two and three. I think there are more of those guys than usual.
As for weaknesses, at safety I think there’s just one top guy – Kyle Hamilton. There’s not much after that. If the Steelers don’t re-sign Edmunds then I think you’ll see them find a guy round three or four that can help. I think in the role the Steelers have that position play, they can find a guy in the middle rounds.
Another group that’s not very deep is center. After Tyler Linderbaum there’s really no one else. It’s always hard to find a center.
And the wide receiver group isn’t very top heavy. Usually there are 14-to-16 guys I have first-to-third round grades on that I project as starters. But this year I’m seeing 10 or 11, and no top flight guy.
How important is the combine to you from the physical/skills measures standpoint?
The most important thing is what happens in the interview rooms and we don’t have access to those. And the medicals which we don’t get early access too. And you can’t always trust the school’s medicals because they are trying to pump their players up.
At the combine I’m more looking for verification on things. It’s more about the drills than the times. I want to see guys back-to-back to compare them. And I can see who’s taking care of their bodies and who they are as individuals. That may be the most important thing. Almost any scout can grade physical ability. But I want to see how they take to coaching when a coach tells them to adjust something on the fly. I want to see their body language – that stuff is so important. That determines whether a guy is successful or not as much as anything.
Looking at the Steelers specifically and the offense Canada runs, what guys do you think would be good fits for the needs of the offense?
On the offensive line, it goes to the system they want to run. They have one of the most predictable offenses in the NFL – they really dumb it down. For example when they are under center they run more than any team in the NFL. And they pass 76% of the time in shotgun. It’s a blah offense.
Now, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. But if you’re going to do that you have to be dominant up front. You look at how the offense went South and some blame an aging Ben, but it was more than that. 2012 was the last time they drafted an offensive lineman round one.
If you’re going to have a less creative offense, who knows who at quarterback and are committed like they are to Najee in the backfield, you have to beef up that offensive line.
The kid from Northern Iowa, Trevor Penning – if you want ton go back to that tough, bruising offense, he’s the kind of guy you want. The Steelers don’t want to go to a Kansas City type offense. They want a mobile quarterback that’s a pocket passer and to pound the ball. They are committed to the jewel they have in the backfield in Harris. Penning is the kind of mean, physical guy, like Quenton Nelson, that can change the personality of an offensive line. I’d draft him and play him at right tackle and give Moore another year at left tackle. And I think there’s upside there in Dotson when they get him back to beef up that line. They need bruisers.
Any of these quarterbacks worth investing in round one?
I don’t think any are but multiple ones will likely get Picked round one. The Steelers want a mobile quarterback because Ben couldn’t evade anybody. He had concrete in his shoes. But none are worth taking round one.
Corral may have the most arm talent but can he take hits in the NFL? Moving on to Howell – he may have the best touch and accuracy and is also a great athlete – an overlooked aspect of his game. He moves to evade pressure more than to run.
Pickett is the safest prospect when it comes to movement and his feel within the pocket and hitting throws downfield. There are shortcomings with his overall size and talent though. I don’t see the upside with him that I do with the others. Pickett reminds me a lot of a Tua type. Maybe Daniel Jones. Safe but probably never someone that can elevate the team around him. Not a guy that will put the team on his back and win repeatedly.
Willis – he’s a run-first guy. He has maybe the best arm strength but he’s light years behind those other guys in reading defenses.
If you’re the Steelers, and I know fans don’t want to hear this, none of these guys really offer much more than what you have in Mason Rudolph.
What about the receiver position in Pittsburgh?
I think the Steelers may have some long-term change at wide receiver. Claypool and Johnson are solid players – Claypool I know had a down year but the touchdowns especially are often just luck and opportunity.
But this receiver corps may look very different two years from now. Sometimes we look at next year as fans, but neither of those receivers may be here two years from now. With the style of offense they want to run – the pounding offense – they need bigger receivers who can block and make contested catches. When you throw quickly like they do, that gives receivers less space to work with – they always have defensive backs around them. You need physical guys.
If that’s a perceived need, guys like Drake London from USC is a good one – and Treylon Burks from Arkansas – he lined up all over then place like Deebo Samuel. Keep an eye out for guys like that if the Steelers decide to prepare for life after Claypool and Johnson.
On defense, what are your draft thoughts there to fill needs?
I love Teryl Austin – he’s a passing game guru. The question for me is, does he have enough of a voice in the organization to get them to draft an outside cornerback. I think they are good on the inside with Norwood and moving Sutton inside. I’m assuming they re-sign Witherspoon – he had the best nine-games of his career in Pittsburgh.
But will they let Austin develop a third or fourth round guy at corner? Coby Bryant is a guy I think would be a great fit. He’s smart and crafty – he’s not dripping with talent but with the right coach I think you can get a lot out of him.
On the defensive line – a lot depends on whether Tuitt comes back or not. They need a nosetackle – but not just a two-down defender type of guy.
Georgia’s Jordan Davis is getting a lot of attention but his teammate Devonte Wyatt would be a good fit for Pittsburgh. He’s not as big or stout as Davis but he’s a three-down defender and I think that’s the kind of nosetackle – like Hargrave was – that the Steelers want. They can get him round two.
Also, Travis Jones from Connecticut was dominant in the Senior Bowl. He was as good as it gets in shrinking the pocket from the middle. He’s every bit of his 320 pounds and is an explosive two-gap guy. The Steelers need guys like him to help protect those inside linebackers.
Any trends in college and the NFL you see lately affecting how teams are approaching the draft?
I think some teams are giving coaches more freedom to take guys that fit their scheme. You’re seeing teams like Buffalo and Kansas City – they don’t just scout the player, they make sure to find players that fit their scheme and are giving coaches more say in that.
I like the Steelers’ hiring of Frisman Jackson. He helped with DJ Moore and Robby Anderson and few people thought Robby Anderson could be that kind of guy. But he saw that fit.
Coaches can see things in players and develop them if they have a say in the process. The Steelers have a decent system where the coaches have a say in what traits they want their players to have – what their prototype of player is. A lot of times the front office makes a lot of those decisions but they aren’t the ones who have to coach them up.
Any other trends?
The Rams are doing interesting things. They draft well in the later rounds and trade away their first round picks for established players. I think the fantasy of the draft gets in the way sometimes with how teams go about making themselves better. If you have a strong supporting cast shelling out a first round pick for an established player may be something you see more and more teams do.